2021年12月12日日曜日

2019/09/8 Prof. Steve Keen at the OECD Conference "Averting Systemic Collapse" 18....



DNATEUR

Lese Haroun

Conclusion

NAEC

• My arguments are independent of my well-known criticisms of Neoclassical economics

• Other economists have rightly criticized Nordhaus & IAMs before:

DeCanio 2003: “The result of this modelling failure has been a bias against bold

and timely action.. and pervasive paralysis in the political debate" (p. 153)

• Pindyck 2017: “integrated assessment models (IAMS) have crucial flaws that

make them close to useless as tools for policy analysis...

• IAM-based analyses of climate policy create a perception of knowledge and

precision that is illusory and can fool policymakers into thinking that the

forecasts the models generate have some kind of scientific legitimacy." (p. 100)

• No Neoclassical should defend IAMS simply because the authors are Neoclassical,

given the appallingly unrealistic assumptions on which their models are based

• This is not an academic game

• Human society should not be sacrificed on the altar of the patently absurd

"simplifying assumptions" of economists


DNATEUR

Lese Haroun

結論

NAEC

- 私の議論は、新古典派経済学に対する私のよく知られた批判とは無関係である。

- 他の経済学者は以前からノードハウスとIAMを正当に批判している。

DeCanio 2003: 「このモデル化の失敗の結果として、大胆でタイムリーな行動への偏見が生まれた。

とタイムリーな行動に偏っており、政治的議論には麻痺が蔓延している」(p. 153)

- Pindyck 2017年 「統合評価モデル(IAMS)には、ツールとしてはほとんど役に立たないような重大な欠陥があります。

政策分析のためのツールとしてはほとんど役に立たない...。

- IAMに基づく気候政策の分析は、知識と精度の認識を作り出すが、それは幻想であり

IAMに基づく気候政策の分析は、幻想的な知識と精度の認識をもたらし、政策立案者を騙して

IAMに基づく気候政策の分析は、幻想的な知識と精度の認識をもたらし、政策立案者を欺いて、モデルが生成する予測がある種の科学的正当性を持っていると思わせてしまう。(p. 100)

- 新古典主義者は、著者が新古典主義者であるという理由だけでIAMSを擁護すべきではない。

IAMSのモデルが、恐ろしく非現実的な仮定に基づいていることを考えれば。

- これは学術的なゲームではない

- 明らかに不合理な経済学者の「仮定の単純化」のために、人間社会を犠牲にしてはならない。

経済学者の「単純化された仮定」のために犠牲になってはならない




we all know that the Nobel Prize is about to be awarded again last year was awarded to two people one of whom was William Nordhaus for the integrating climate change and the long-run macroeconomic analysis and this is a key slide from the lecture that Nordhaus gave as part of receiving the Nobel Prize or a number of trajectories identified there for temperature between now and 2050 and he described one of those as optimal with a four degree increase in temperature above pre-industrial levels by 21:40 optimal four degrees greater than pre-industrial levels now in what way could you regard a four degree increase in temperature over pre-industrial levels is optimal well the basic logic was it minimizes the cost of a basement and the cost of climate change together if you said we did Noah Bateman whatsoever in other words we simply let the climate proceed as it is with the level of carbon dioxide and other pollutants were popping into the atmosphere then the temperature greater than six degrees above pre-industrial levels and the net present value damage of that would be 23 trillion slightly more than the u.s. economy the cost of abatement therefore is zero now if we go for optimal abatement which would reduce temperature to minimize it to a four degree increase or about four degrees over pre-industrial the damages would be fifteen trillion less than the size of the US economy now and cost of abatement three those are the calculations there now six months before he gave that talk a genuine climate scientist William will Stefan described the likelihood of a 5-4 degree increase in temperature this way the tropics are in uninhabitable and the punchline down the bottom there the maximum carrying capacity of the planet about 1 billion humans versus 7 and a half billion now now how on earth can you square those two visions of the future what I believed before I started reading these papers in detail was that economists were applying a very high discount rate to the same estimates of damage I found that wasn't the case they were affecting making up their own estimates using a range of methods the most absurd of which is the following they were using today's variation in GDP and temperature across the planet and believing they could use that to estimate the impact of climate change over time this is when one of the key papers aggregating this so-called empirical research they assumed the observed variation of economic activity with climate over space holds over time as well sounds very clever it's incredibly stupid what they did was they took data on GDP and temperature today across the globe mainly across America and they found a weak quadratic relationship between temperature and GDP they then assumed that same relationship would apply as we massively increase the amount of energy retained from the from the Sun by adding to greenhouse gases they called it the statistical approach to the number of different labels they used for it this is one of the first papers to do it not the only by far you said the climate response functions were quadratic countries that are currently cooler are going to benefit country that are currently warmer will be harmed and the cross-sectional putting all the data together they presumed that an increase in temperature I think three degrees in this case would bring benefits of a hundred and forty five billion dollars per year now that became a data point that Nordhaus used to estimate his damage function which is simply a quadratic it's the temperature difference over pre-industrial level squared multiplied by a coefficient of course he had to work out what that coefficient was so using symbol that this sort of data and equally flawed data there's mendelssohn's data point whether with a point one percent increase in GDP could achieve a two point five degree increase in global temperature or others that use the same same idea that's not houses own contribution in 94 assuming the same relationship and the coefficient has been just in the most recent papers reduced it yet again his coefficient for that quadratic is point zero zero two two seven meaning that a one degree increase in temperature over pre-industrial the Austrians will cause a point two to seven percent fall in global GDP this is before discounting by the way this is not discounted this is simply what they say the actual damage will be two degrees will cause less than a wonder but one percent fall four degrees will just cause a three point six degree percent fall even ten degrees would just reduce GDP by twenty three percent over what it would have been in the complete absence of global warming now these conclusions are only valid if and only if the assumption that the variation we see across space today will be the same over time with the incredible increase in the amount of energy that would be retaining in the biosphere courtesy of additional greenhouse gases and I got involved in a fairly acrimonious exchange with one of the economists who has been writing these IPCC reports the some years now William told Todd Richard toll pardon me and as part of that he said this is one of his traits ten degrees Kelvin is less than the grid temperature difference between Alaska and Maryland blah blah blah climate is not a primary driver of income this is one of the people drafting the IPCC reports now a meteorologist intervened in its discussion and said that a global climate ten degrees warmer than to the present is not remotely the same thing as taking the current climate and simply adding 10 degrees everywhere tolls response to that was to say that's not the point we see people thrive in very different climates climate determinism therefore has no empirical support and he finally said if you can't show that it heads over space why can you say that it holds over time now what they've done is that takin GDP in two places normally in America and compared them while the level of energy in the biosphere remains constant you're not looking at change over time okay what global warming will do is dramatically increase the amount of energy in the biosphere completely disrupting the existing climate disrupting human life as well as a result of that you get no information whatsoever about the impact of global warming by looking at local temperature to GDP relationships and I want to give a little simple illustration of this just for the sake of exposition let's assume and this is simply for the sake of exposition I don't believe it okay let's assume temperature is a linear sum of the global temperature caused by our location in the Goldilocks zone around our star plus local deviation caused by whereabouts you are on that the surface of the planet and assume that there's a linear relationship between GDP and temperature as well so the hypothesis they had was something like this GDP per capita is a function of two temperatures the global temperature given by the Goldilocks location then and and by greenhouse gases pre-industrial levels plus local deviation to get alpha one climbs global temperature plus alpha two times local temperature and then you get well let's look at that for Florida so the local deviation in America at seven degrees higher than the average for America the decatur it's ten degrees below and then you do a calculation you subtract the two you get a relationship saying the difference between the two is 17 times the value of your coefficient for the local temperature variation you've canceled out your global temperature variation you then can solve for alpha to get an estimate of it you have no information on alpha one so are you assume alpha one equals alpha two that is outrageously stupid and not just stupid in some academic exercise this is threatening the existence of human society if anybody's going to bring capitalism undone it's going to be the Economist who wrote this research now it's like having and I want to give a graphic illustration what this is like this is like having north-south data on a mountain not having any east-west but because it's flat you tell the hikers that walking east-west is safe because Northwest is flat and you're on the edge of El Capitan that's about as smart as what economists have done in this case and this fatally unrealistic climate data I'm putting in inverted commas was calibrated to equally unrealistic damage functions and it's the difficulty as we're trying to graph something we haven't experienced so I want to say we can actually use their models and use their assumptions which is quadratic damage functions to look at things we actually have experience because we have experienced as a species lower temperatures than today the last ice age when you go backwards and look at the temperature records you find the last ice age was about 4 degrees lower below that the average for 1951 to 1980 so what was the planet like then and what does not houses damage function predict would be the impact on GDP if we were facing global cooling rather than global warming well 20,000 years ago it was 4 degrees cooler that's what the planet looked like Nordhaus prediction that would reduce GDP by 3.6 percent he deserves to be laughed out not given a Nobel Prize okay and yet this is the basis of economists saying we don't need to worry about it and assuring politicians they don't need to worry it's sheer nonsense again just to make the obvious New York can be immediate it would be one kilometer below ice that's not going to affect GDP by more than 3.6 percent you simply cannot extrapolate to that world from our current data but that's what they've been doing now why do they ignore tipping points they talk about it all the time but it never turns up in their function certainly not in law houses he's actually made it less capable of handling tipping points his most recent paper it's because you can't do cost-benefit analysis when you have discontinuities so the response of the economists was let's ignore the tipping and what the climate scientist is saying and they're saying it much more politely than me I hope they're going to join me in being as rude as is necessary to get through on this front they're saying abandoned cost-benefit analysis stefan published a joint paper with about 16 other climate scientists just recently and they've said very mildly the contemporary way of guiding development founded on beliefs of gradual and incremental change will not likely be adequate to cope with this trajectory well it certainly won't because they're not even imagining that that trajectory is what we actually face so my position on having read this data reading the IPCC reports we should remove economists from the IPCC if not that we should at least appoint non mainstream economists who would not make such a stupid assumption people like myself camp adriano garret garage Rosselli there's a number of people doing the unorthodox work on that we would not agree to that assumption and get climate scientists to vet what's being done now what is happening because we're not doing this as climate change denier lists or what I think a better called climate change trivializes are using the IPCC to justify trivializing I don't need to introduce you on Lomborg to anybody here and here a few statements by him today's noble Lord shows optimal climate solution is one is 3.5 degree temperature increase he's quoting the IPC again showing those damage function points six degrees is likely to reduced by six to twelve percent of GAAP and he's quoting the IPCC is quoting economists to make these statements and he rubbishes the students getting involved the I the extinction rebellion and then he says you know in uric and problem IPCC impacts smaller than most other drivers let's take a good look at this he actually is quoting the IPCC for most economic sectors the impact of climate change will be small relative to the impact of other drivers include and they have the including population medium evidence high agreement so the whole group of economists putting this together have fallen into the same group think of believing that ridiculous assumption that data about temperature and GDP today can be used to predict the impact of climate change and you won't be amazed to hear one of the authors is lead authors of that particular document we should be using data from the climate scientists themselves including the work that Stefan has done and others to identify tipping points of course the first of those tipping points is probably already gone Arctic winter sea ice and the Cascade that will cause will mean we simply can't stay at the levels of temperature that these economists think is going to be benign we need models that actually in which energy plays a fundamental role now none of them at neoclassical models none of the post Keynesian models yet properly include energy properly I'm starting to do that work with Bruce le and Garrett and when we feed that in we can get both cyclic or economic behavior followed by economic collapse in this particular simple illustration of running out of resources but simple and it's stylized but it's already more realistic than what Nordhaus have done because it includes resource constraints that are absent from the work being done by these so-called climate economists so and now you know i'm a critic of mainstream economics that's no secret but my criticisms here are not dependent upon me rejecting things like the ramsay growth model and so on i haven't even got to the ramsay growth model yet it's just the stupid assumptions they're making no self-respecting neoclassical economist should put forth what these people are doing and several beforehand before me have come out and said these are crucial if these crucially flawed next to useless they're worse than useless they've distracted us from the important challenge we face and it's time we shut them down thank you [Applause] 


 00:05 we all know that the Nobel Prize is 00:07 about to be awarded again last year was 00:09 awarded to two people one of whom was 00:11 William Nordhaus for the integrating 00:13 climate change and the long-run 00:14 macroeconomic analysis and this is a key 00:17 slide from the lecture that Nordhaus 00:20 gave as part of receiving the Nobel 00:22 Prize or a number of trajectories 00:24 identified there for temperature between 00:27 now and 2050 and he described one of 00:30 those as optimal with a four degree 00:34 increase in temperature above 00:35 pre-industrial levels by 21:40 optimal 00:39 four degrees greater than pre-industrial 00:42 levels now in what way could you regard 00:49 a four degree increase in temperature 00:50 over pre-industrial levels is optimal 00:53 well the basic logic was it minimizes 00:56 the cost of a basement and the cost of 00:58 climate change together if you said we 01:01 did Noah Bateman whatsoever in other 01:02 words we simply let the climate proceed 01:05 as it is with the level of carbon 01:07 dioxide and other pollutants were 01:09 popping into the atmosphere then the 01:11 temperature greater than six degrees 01:12 above pre-industrial levels and the net 01:16 present value damage of that would be 23 01:19 trillion slightly more than the u.s. 01:20 economy the cost of abatement therefore 01:25 is zero now if we go for optimal 01:28 abatement which would reduce temperature 01:30 to minimize it to a four degree increase 01:32 or about four degrees over 01:33 pre-industrial the damages would be 01:35 fifteen trillion less than the size of 01:37 the US economy now and cost of abatement 01:40 three those are the calculations there 01:46 now six months before he gave that talk 01:49 a genuine climate scientist William will 01:53 Stefan described the likelihood of a 5-4 01:57 degree increase in temperature this way 01:59 the tropics are in uninhabitable and the 02:03 punchline down the bottom there the 02:05 maximum carrying capacity of the planet 02:06 about 1 billion humans versus 7 and a 02:10 half billion now now how on earth can 02:14 you square those two 02:16 visions of the future what I believed 02:19 before I started reading these papers in 02:21 detail was that economists were applying 02:23 a very high discount rate to the same 02:26 estimates of damage 02:27 I found that wasn't the case they were 02:30 affecting making up their own estimates 02:32 using a range of methods the most absurd 02:35 of which is the following they were 02:38 using today's variation in GDP and 02:41 temperature across the planet and 02:43 believing they could use that to 02:45 estimate the impact of climate change 02:47 over time this is when one of the key 02:50 papers aggregating this so-called 02:52 empirical research they assumed the 02:54 observed variation of economic activity 02:56 with climate over space holds over time 02:58 as well 02:59 sounds very clever it's incredibly 03:01 stupid what they did was they took data 03:05 on GDP and temperature today across the 03:09 globe mainly across America and they 03:11 found a weak quadratic relationship 03:14 between temperature and GDP they then 03:17 assumed that same relationship would 03:19 apply as we massively increase the 03:22 amount of energy retained from the from 03:24 the Sun by adding to greenhouse gases 03:27 they called it the statistical approach 03:29 to the number of different labels they 03:30 used for it this is one of the first 03:32 papers to do it not the only by far you 03:34 said the climate response functions were 03:36 quadratic countries that are currently 03:40 cooler are going to benefit country that 03:43 are currently warmer will be harmed and 03:45 the cross-sectional putting all the data 03:48 together they presumed that an increase 03:50 in temperature I think three degrees in 03:51 this case would bring benefits of a 03:55 hundred and forty five billion dollars 03:56 per year now that became a data point 04:02 that Nordhaus used to estimate his 04:05 damage function which is simply a 04:07 quadratic it's the temperature 04:09 difference over pre-industrial level 04:12 squared multiplied by a coefficient of 04:14 course he had to work out what that 04:15 coefficient was so using symbol that 04:20 this sort of data and equally flawed 04:21 data there's mendelssohn's data point 04:23 whether with a point one percent 04:24 increase in GDP could achieve a two 04:26 point five degree increase in global 04:28 temperature 04:29 or others that use the same same idea 04:32 that's not houses own contribution in 94 04:35 assuming the same relationship and the 04:40 coefficient has been just in the most 04:42 recent papers reduced it yet again his 04:45 coefficient for that quadratic is point 04:47 zero zero two two seven meaning that a 04:50 one degree increase in temperature over 04:51 pre-industrial the Austrians will cause 04:53 a point two to seven percent fall in 04:56 global GDP this is before discounting by 04:59 the way this is not discounted this is 05:01 simply what they say the actual damage 05:03 will be two degrees will cause less than 05:06 a wonder but one percent fall four 05:09 degrees will just cause a three point 05:10 six degree percent fall even ten degrees 05:13 would just reduce GDP by twenty three 05:16 percent over what it would have been in 05:19 the complete absence of global warming 05:23 now these conclusions are only valid if 05:27 and only if the assumption that the 05:29 variation we see across space today will 05:32 be the same over time with the 05:34 incredible increase in the amount of 05:36 energy that would be retaining in the 05:38 biosphere courtesy of additional 05:40 greenhouse gases and I got involved in a 05:43 fairly acrimonious exchange with one of 05:46 the economists who has been writing 05:47 these IPCC reports the some years now 05:50 William told Todd Richard toll pardon me 05:52 and as part of that he said this is one 05:55 of his traits 05:55 ten degrees Kelvin is less than the grid 05:58 temperature difference between Alaska 05:59 and Maryland blah blah blah climate is 06:02 not a primary driver of income this is 06:04 one of the people drafting the IPCC 06:06 reports now a meteorologist intervened 06:09 in its discussion and said that a global 06:11 climate ten degrees warmer than to the 06:13 present is not remotely the same thing 06:15 as taking the current climate and simply 06:18 adding 10 degrees everywhere tolls 06:21 response to that was to say that's not 06:24 the point we see people thrive in very 06:25 different climates climate determinism 06:28 therefore has no empirical support and 06:32 he finally said if you can't show that 06:33 it heads over space why can you say that 06:35 it holds over time 06:40 now what they've done is that takin GDP 06:43 in two places normally in America and 06:45 compared them while the level of energy 06:48 in the biosphere remains constant you're 06:51 not looking at change over time okay 06:53 what global warming will do is 06:55 dramatically increase the amount of 06:57 energy in the biosphere completely 06:59 disrupting the existing climate 07:02 disrupting human life as well as a 07:04 result of that you get no information 07:06 whatsoever about the impact of global 07:09 warming by looking at local temperature 07:11 to GDP relationships and I want to give 07:13 a little simple illustration of this 07:15 just for the sake of exposition let's 07:18 assume and this is simply for the sake 07:20 of exposition I don't believe it okay 07:22 let's assume temperature is a linear sum 07:24 of the global temperature caused by our 07:26 location in the Goldilocks zone around 07:28 our star plus local deviation caused by 07:32 whereabouts you are on that the surface 07:34 of the planet and assume that there's a 07:36 linear relationship between GDP and 07:38 temperature as well so the hypothesis 07:40 they had was something like this GDP per 07:42 capita is a function of two temperatures 07:44 the global temperature given by the 07:46 Goldilocks location then and and by 07:49 greenhouse gases pre-industrial levels 07:53 plus local deviation to get alpha one 07:55 climbs global temperature plus alpha two 07:57 times local temperature and then you get 08:00 well let's look at that for Florida so 08:01 the local deviation in America at seven 08:04 degrees higher than the average for 08:05 America the decatur it's ten degrees 08:08 below and then you do a calculation you 08:10 subtract the two you get a relationship 08:13 saying the difference between the two is 08:14 17 times the value of your coefficient 08:17 for the local temperature variation 08:19 you've canceled out your global 08:22 temperature variation you then can solve 08:24 for alpha to get an estimate of it you 08:27 have no information on alpha one so are 08:29 you assume alpha one equals alpha two 08:32 that is outrageously stupid and not just 08:36 stupid in some academic exercise this is 08:39 threatening the existence of human 08:40 society if anybody's going to bring 08:43 capitalism undone it's going to be the 08:45 Economist who wrote this research 08:48 now it's like having and I want to give 08:50 a graphic illustration what this is like 08:52 this is like having north-south data on 08:55 a mountain not having any east-west but 08:58 because it's flat you tell the hikers 09:01 that walking east-west is safe because 09:03 Northwest is flat and you're on the edge 09:06 of El Capitan that's about as smart as 09:10 what economists have done in this case 09:12 and this fatally unrealistic climate 09:15 data I'm putting in inverted commas was 09:18 calibrated to equally unrealistic damage 09:20 functions and it's the difficulty as 09:24 we're trying to graph something we 09:25 haven't experienced so I want to say we 09:28 can actually use their models and use 09:30 their assumptions which is quadratic 09:31 damage functions to look at things we 09:34 actually have experience because we have 09:36 experienced as a species lower 09:38 temperatures than today the last ice age 09:41 when you go backwards and look at the 09:43 temperature records you find the last 09:45 ice age was about 4 degrees lower below 09:49 that the average for 1951 to 1980 so 09:53 what was the planet like then and what 09:56 does not houses damage function predict 09:58 would be the impact on GDP if we were 10:01 facing global cooling rather than global 10:03 warming well 20,000 years ago it was 4 10:06 degrees cooler that's what the planet 10:08 looked like Nordhaus prediction that 10:12 would reduce GDP by 3.6 percent he 10:17 deserves to be laughed out not given a 10:19 Nobel Prize okay and yet this is the 10:22 basis of economists saying we don't need 10:24 to worry about it and assuring 10:25 politicians they don't need to worry 10:27 it's sheer nonsense again just to make 10:30 the obvious New York can be immediate it 10:32 would be one kilometer below ice that's 10:34 not going to affect GDP by more than 3.6 10:36 percent 10:37 you simply cannot extrapolate to that 10:39 world from our current data but that's 10:41 what they've been doing now why do they 10:45 ignore tipping points they talk about it 10:47 all the time but it never turns up in 10:48 their function certainly not in law 10:49 houses he's actually made it less 10:51 capable of handling tipping points his 10:53 most recent paper it's because you can't 10:55 do cost-benefit analysis when you have 10:57 discontinuities so the response of the 10:59 economists was let's ignore the tipping 11:02 and what the climate scientist is saying 11:04 and they're saying it much more politely 11:05 than me I hope they're going to join me 11:07 in being as rude as is necessary to get 11:09 through on this front they're saying 11:11 abandoned cost-benefit analysis stefan 11:14 published a joint paper with about 16 11:16 other climate scientists just recently 11:18 and they've said very mildly the 11:20 contemporary way of guiding development 11:22 founded on beliefs of gradual and 11:24 incremental change will not likely be 11:25 adequate to cope with this trajectory 11:27 well it certainly won't because they're 11:30 not even imagining that that trajectory 11:32 is what we actually face so my position 11:36 on having read this data reading the 11:38 IPCC reports we should remove economists 11:40 from the IPCC if not that we should at 11:44 least appoint non mainstream economists 11:46 who would not make such a stupid 11:48 assumption people like myself camp 11:52 adriano garret garage Rosselli there's a 11:55 number of people doing the unorthodox 11:56 work on that we would not agree to that 11:59 assumption and get climate scientists to 12:02 vet what's being done now what is 12:03 happening because we're not doing this 12:05 as climate change denier lists or what I 12:08 think a better called climate change 12:10 trivializes are using the IPCC to 12:13 justify trivializing I don't need to 12:15 introduce you on Lomborg to anybody here 12:17 and here a few statements by him 12:19 today's noble Lord shows optimal climate 12:21 solution is one is 3.5 degree 12:26 temperature increase he's quoting the 12:28 IPC again showing those damage function 12:31 points six degrees is likely to reduced 12:38 by six to twelve percent of GAAP and 12:42 he's quoting the IPCC is quoting 12:44 economists to make these statements and 12:47 he rubbishes the students getting 12:51 involved the I the extinction rebellion 12:53 and then he says you know in uric and 12:55 problem IPCC impacts smaller than most 12:58 other drivers let's take a good look at 13:00 this he actually is quoting the IPCC for 13:03 most economic sectors the impact of 13:04 climate change will be small relative to 13:07 the impact of other drivers include and 13:08 they have the including population 13:11 medium evidence high agreement 13:15 so the whole group of economists putting 13:17 this together have fallen into the same 13:19 group think of believing that ridiculous 13:22 assumption that data about temperature 13:25 and GDP today can be used to predict the 13:27 impact of climate change and you won't 13:29 be amazed to hear one of the authors is 13:31 lead authors of that particular document 13:36 we should be using data from the climate 13:39 scientists themselves including the work 13:41 that Stefan has done and others to 13:43 identify tipping points of course the 13:45 first of those tipping points is 13:46 probably already gone Arctic winter sea 13:49 ice and the Cascade that will cause will 13:52 mean we simply can't stay at the levels 13:55 of temperature that these economists 13:56 think is going to be benign we need 13:58 models that actually in which energy 14:00 plays a fundamental role now none of 14:03 them at neoclassical models none of the 14:04 post Keynesian models yet properly 14:06 include energy properly I'm starting to 14:08 do that work with Bruce le and Garrett 14:11 and when we feed that in we can get both 14:13 cyclic or economic behavior followed by 14:15 economic collapse in this particular 14:17 simple illustration of running out of 14:19 resources but simple and it's stylized 14:21 but it's already more realistic than 14:23 what Nordhaus have done because it 14:25 includes resource constraints that are 14:27 absent from the work being done by these 14:29 so-called climate economists so and now 14:32 you know i'm a critic of mainstream 14:33 economics that's no secret but my 14:36 criticisms here are not dependent upon 14:38 me rejecting things like the ramsay 14:40 growth model and so on i haven't even 14:42 got to the ramsay growth model yet it's 14:45 just the stupid assumptions they're 14:46 making no self-respecting neoclassical 14:49 economist should put forth what these 14:51 people are doing and several beforehand 14:53 before me have come out and said these 14:54 are crucial if these crucially flawed 14:56 next to useless they're worse than 14:58 useless 14:59 they've distracted us from the important 15:01 challenge we face and it's time we shut 15:03 them down thank you 15:07 [Applause]

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