love and theft: ②Kelton2020年12月15日2/2

Sara:

economy going forward an economy for the people so can we actually build things in the in the near term in the short term here that can be a template for the kind of economy that we want to build going forward.

Kelton:

well look i i think that you know we we sort of almost have buckets we're working with some different buckets here right and we're we're still very much in the relief phase of this and i know people use the word stimulus and that kind of thing but you know we're if we're lucky if we're lucky next year congress will come at this again and we will start talking about recovery and some of the strategic investments that can be made to lay a sustainable foundation for an economic recovery and if we were really lucky we would use the other r word that fdr used and we'd start talking about reform and then we would get really in to the sort of structural changes that we could make to the economy that would you know make um our social safety net more resilient we know that this thing is not uh up to the job right it is not strong enough to support families communities businesses in an economic downturn but we're not there yet we're in the relief phase and so you're saying what do we need to have in this package we need to have renewed unemployment insurance for people who remain unemployed that absolutely has to happen whether it's 600 it's i like 600 i'm happy to see 600 done again uh who knows what we might get but that has to happen and you know economists at the economic policy institute have told us.

that just doing that will help to create or save 5.1 million jobs we have an economy that is very much slowing down right now.

so you know where we've pulled our foot off the off the gas pedal we've removed the fiscal support and we're seeing the the ramifications the economy is slowing down so what are we going to do we're going to restore some income support for the unemployed that's absolutely critical but so is getting money to state and local governments.

the same economists at the economic policy institute tell us if we do not provide if congress doesn't get money to state and local governments to help them avoid further layoffs.

because they've already laid off 1.3 million people if they don't get the money that they need to shore up their budget shortfalls and keep public services going and workers and so forth we're going to lose millions more jobs.

and guess what most of them are in the private sector because public sector jobs support other jobs in the economy so i mean you know the the stimulus checks or the direct cash payments i think are absolutely critical.

we got to do something on um on rent what are we going to do.

when we know that at the you know turn of the year starting january you're going to have about 12 million or so people who are behind on the rent.

who will owe an average of almost 6 000.

so even getting a 1200 check or a couple of 1200 checks and maybe some money for the kids.

that's great it's 3 400 bucks for a family of four but if you owe 6 000 you're still in trouble you're still at risk of eviction so we've got to do something on rent it can't just be this deferring rent.

it's got to be you know some cancellation we've got to help people work their way out of debt because the debt has been building up on folks and i'll just throw in student loan debt.

as yet one more example because you know all these people that were told don't hang on to that money don't pay back that student loan debt right now just just wait a minute well it's all built up on them so when the debts are coming due it's the rent it's the utilities it's the student loan debt and they're not going to have the income to do it so we're going to be facing um renewed carnage and this in this economy come january february march if we don't get enough income support and i think also do something to deal with the debt that debts that are unpayable are going to bleed into the rest of the economy as defaults begin to happen.

Sara:

so it's interesting that you brought up student loan debt because that was one of the biggest questions that we got before we started tonight and i just want to i should have been doing this earlier but if people who are watching right now have questions uh tweet your questions with hashtag relief for the people um and we'll look for those and try to answer your questions over the next 20 minutes that we're here.

um but you know we want to talk about we want to really define the problem we want to define the demands and we also i think everyone has been talking here about the fact that this is not hopeless this is actually something that we can take on together if we define the problem define the demands there is urgency so we know there's urgency people are hurting but we can come together.

and do something about it so this is where we start is really understanding it so um reverend coates what what would you like to see uh in the relief package um that you think it makes the most sense and then i'm we'll get some questions too.

D C:

yeah well i think uh derek and stephanie have really hit the nail on the head uh we need all these we need we need the the reason the debt problem is so immoral is that they are just numbers we are allowing our willingness to type numbers into a computer keep people in economic slavery and bondage for generations that's it and i think that is the deepest moral travesty as it relates to the debt question today.

Sara:

and stephanie on a macro level how does this individual debt hurt everyone in society.

Kelton:

all right well so you've got about 1.7 trillion that is owed by some 45 uh 46 million people.

and you know it hurt it affects different people in different ways for some people it's the reason that they can't get married and start a family for other people it's the reason they can't move out of their parents home get a place of their own for other people you know it's holding back that car purchase or it's the reason they don't go out to dinner more than once a week or take a vacation because you know all the disposable income has to go to service you know student loan debt or something.

so at the macro level it is like a wet blanket right it is .

imagine the the alternative what would people do if they didn't have to pull out the checkbook every month and write that three hundred dollar check for that seven hundred dollar check for that twelve hundred dollar check to service their student loan debt what would they do instead.

well you know people would spend a whole lot more money into the economy they'd be flying on airplanes they'd be going out to restaurants.

they'd be going to the theater they would be buying that new pair of tennis shoes they would be you know i mean it's pretty sweet .

Sara:

the carbon neutral emission airplanes by the way.

Kelton:

carbon neutral but look i want to really quickly i know we're running short on time but this this um question about hey that's not fair i paid off my student loan debt so i'm opposed to you know debt cancellation for anybody today.

because by god i had to suffer my way through repaying uh my student loans and so forth this is you know i i i understand it on some level but then on a on a very deep level i really just don't get it because i want the generations that come after us to do better than we did i want people to have an easier go of it.

and plus you know all the student loan debt this is a policy failure that's why we have 1.7 trillion but would you say would you want to hear somebody say i'm opposed to raising the minimum wage the federal minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour because i retired yesterday and i was making seven dollars and 25 cents an hour and i went through my whole working life at 7.25.

so i'm opposed to moving the minimum wage up now because i didn't get it right i want the working class to have better conditions to have better pay to have better um benefits.

and so i want to fight for you know if i had um paid for my health insurance all along and then somebody said well what about you know giving moving to single payer or something like that i say no that's not fair i paid for my private health insurance my whole working car.

no come on let's create the world we want let's have the the social safety net strengthened for workers to come for future generations like you know if some solidarity here would be nice right.

we we're all members of the working population we're working people and gotta want for other working people i think um better pay better working conditions and we ought to be able to stand up and and fight for someone uh.

we don't know and somebody who may not you know is not ourselves it's not about us about all of us.

Sara:9:00

so i i want to ask we're going to go just a couple minutes over but i want to ask you know um brian can you see the face of someone who is affected by you know this personal debt and tell their story.

because i think that one of the other problems is that we have not been willing to talk about the people living in poverty in this country and we have gone from in you know the last 30 years gone from uh under 20 percent poverty to almost 50 percent of the population is living in poverty now.

and it's been about poverty shaming and telling people that they shouldn't talk about the fact that they can't pay their bills and they can't have a home.

and they should be ashamed of that and so i think it's really important that we're telling their stories and can you describe a face and tell us the story of someone that you've talked to um that's coming to mind as we're talking about all this.

BG:

yeah sure so um so stephanie um is a uh i think she's 32 years old um there something really is emerging and um and i think that's incredibly exciting to to be living um in a moment of you know.

Sara:

we have a shared experience that we can organize from and we need to organize from here and stephanie said the other night she said um that uh i'm i'm almost at a loss for words except that i'm not completely out of them and so i'm going to speak um when we get together.

and i think that we should get together more often because we should be talking there's so much here that we have to talk about to have people believe and understand what is possible.

but um stephanie um i want to give you some space to say some of the things that you wanted to say the other night and then reverend coats i'm going to ask you to take us out with something uplifting and positive.

Kelton:

well i mean i want to be uplifting and positive too it's just that i'm so frustrated and now.

Sara:

call it out call it out girl.

Kelton:

that that's really how this came about because we we three derek and sarah and i will get in these you know private chat conversations.

and we'll be texting or whatever and then just um you just have to you want to shake someone you want to scream you want to let it out you're so frustrated and so i i unleash on them and we all unleash our you know our frustrations uh between ourselves and i i think i just at some point said we should we should say this out loud.

and we should just go public and have a conversation i think we were pretty pretty restrained to be honest you know it's frustrating i teach economics and i made a joke the other day that you know.

this is the question you put first on the exam because you're trying to build the student's confidence so you give them the easy questions first right.

what should we do now to support people in a pandemic and as the wheels come off the economy.

that's the question you put first because it's easy to answer right.

and yet we have com congress that's just completely sitting on its hands for months on end we know that the bidding is going in the wrong direction we started off with a 3.4 trillion dollar opening salvo right from the democrats.

and then the number has just gradually come down over time to the point that we keep talking skinnier and skinnier and skinnier everybody's starving and the bill is getting skinnier and skinnier.

so you know it's frustrating because as we've been talking about for the last hour um you know it's it's a pen stroke it's the it's the power of the purse it's as simple as getting the legislation written correctly include the kinds of things that ought to be in it provide the income support provide the fiscal support for this economy.

and be prepared to continue to do it for as long as it takes right and recognize that we really could pick up the pieces as the economy has fallen apart.

and and you know as brian said we don't want to pick up the pieces and put them back together the way they were assembled before because that was not a good economy we want to be able to pick the pieces up and put them together differently this time.

build back a stronger more resilient economy that looks after people cares for people get let's create the world we know we could have we have intersecting crises healthcare economic housing racial justice there it's a climate it's all bearing down on us.

so why not take advantage of the opportunity and as we've heard again and again we have the capacity so you know we can do these things we just need some imagination and some bravery in congress.

somebody to step up enough of them to step up and commit the kind of resources that will help us transform lives and livelihoods in this world into the kind of you know place that we all would be much happier living in you know.

Sara:14:00

well that was uplifting stephanie so i'm gonna i'm gonna give you an a-plus on that too but quite seriously reverend coates you know and and derek and stephanie and brian i think that we should get together again so i think we should do this again and yes okay um but but reverend cuz i'm gonna give you the last word.

DC:

well we definitely have to convene grassroots movement of people.

we can have the kind of society that we envision thank you.

Sara:

that's everybody out there watching tonight thanks everybody for joining us and we'll see you again soon good night.

DC:

thank you

Kelton:

thank you.

サラ

経済が前進していく... 人々のための経済なので短期的には近いうちに実際に物事を構築することができますそれが今後構築していきたい経済のひな形になります

ケルトン

景気刺激策という言葉が使われていますが、運が良ければ来年の議会が来るでしょう。もし本当に運が良ければ、ＦＤＲが使っていた「Ｒ」という言葉を使って改革の話を始めて社会的セーフティネットをより強固なものにするために、経済を変えることができますが、これは仕事に耐えられるものではありません。このパッケージには失業者のための失業保険を更新する必要があります。これは絶対に実現しなければなりません。

経済政策研究所のエコノミストによると、これを行うだけで、510万人の雇用を創出、または救うことができます。

アクセルを踏み外したところで、財政支援を外しました。経済が減速していることの影響を目の当たりにしています。

経済政策研究所の同じエコノミストが言うには、もし議会が解雇を避けるために、州や地方自治体にお金を提供しなければ、

彼らはすでに130万人を解雇しているので、もし彼らが予算不足を補い、公共サービスを維持するために必要なお金を得られなければ

公共部門の仕事は経済の他の仕事を支えていますので、景気刺激策の小切手や現金の直接支払いは絶対に重要だと思います。

景気刺激策の小切手や現金の直接支払いは絶対に重要だと思います。

年明けの１月から、約１２０００万人の家賃滞納者が出てくることになります。

その人たちは、平均で約６千ドルの借金をすることになります

だから、１２０００ドルの小切手か、１２００ドルの小切手を何枚かもらって、子供のためにお金を稼いでもいい。

４人家族で３４００ドルですが、６００００ドルの借金がある場合は、立ち退きの危険性があります。

家賃の支払いを猶予するだけではダメなんです。借金を帳消しにして、借金から抜け出す手助けをしなくてはなりません。

これはもう一つの例ですが、お金にしがみつくなと言われた人たちは、学生ローンの借金を今すぐ返すなと言われましたが、ちょっと待ってくださいと言われました。もし十分な収入を得られなければ、1月2月3月には、この経済状況の中で、新たな大惨事に直面することになるでしょう。

サラ

サラ：あなたが学生ローンの話を持ち出したのは興味深いですね、それは今夜の放送が始まる前に私たちが受けた最大の質問の一つだったからです。

問題を明確にして、要求を明確にして、みんなが話していますが、これは絶望的なものではありません。

しかし、私たちは一緒になって何かをすることができます。これを理解することから始めましょう。

www.DeepL.com/Translator（無料版）で翻訳しました。

…

サラ

ステファニーマクロレベルではこの個人の借金は社会全体にどのような影響を与えているのか？

ケルトン

約1.7兆ドルの借金があります 4,500万人、4,600万人の人が負っています

ある人は結婚して家族を持つことができない、ある人は結婚して家族を持つことができない、ある人は実家を出て自分の家を持つことができない、ある人は車を購入するのを躊躇している、ある人は週に一度も外食をしない、休暇を取ることができない、ある人は可処分所得のすべてが学生ローンの借金の返済に充てられない、ということです。

マクロレベルでは、濡れた毛布のようなものです。

代替案を想像してみてください。もし、毎月小切手帳を出して、300ドルの小切手を書いたり、700ドルの小切手を書いたり、1200ドルの小切手を書いたりしなくても、学生ローンの借金の返済に充てることができたとしたら、人々はどうするでしょうか。

人々は、もっとたくさんのお金を経済に使うでしょう。飛行機に乗ったり、レストランに出かけたり。

劇場に行ったり、新しいテニスシューズを買ったりするでしょう。

サラ

ところで、カーボン・ニュートラル・エミッションの飛行機です。

ケルトン

ケルトン：カーボンニュートラルですが、本当に早くしたいのですが、時間がないのは分かっているのですが、この質問は......それはフェアじゃないですね、私は学生ローンの借金を完済したので、今日は誰かのために借金を帳消しにすることに反対です。

私は学生ローンを返済してきたので、今日は誰かのために債務を帳消しにすることに反対です。

私は最低賃金の引き上げに反対だと言う人の話を聞きたいですか？連邦政府の最低賃金を時給15ドルに引き上げることに反対だと言う人の話を聞きたいですか？

だから私は最低賃金の引き上げに反対しています。私が正しく理解していなかったからです。

だから私はそのために戦いたいのです。もし私がずっと健康保険を払っていたとしたら、誰かがシングルペイラーに移行するのはどうだろうと言ったとしたら、それは不公平だと思います。

私は民間の健康保険に入っているし、働く車も全部払っているのです。

我々は皆、労働者の一員であり、労働者であり、他の労働者のために、より良い賃金、より良い労働条件を求めるべきだと思う。

私たちが知らない誰かのために戦うことができるようになるべきだと思う。

サラ:9:00