2022年9月12日月曜日

Pavlina Tcherneva 2010, Fiscal Sustainability Conference 2010 (Part 9)




Pavlina Tcherneva 2010, Fiscal Sustainability Conference 2010 (Part 9)

MMT: A Job Guarantee Would Bring Unemployment to Zero


Fiscal Sustainability Conference 2010 (Part 9)


35:36~
imorley72チャンネル


So we see responsible fiscal policy as an employment stabilisation via direct job creation. And we see direct job creation as a permanent feature of policymaking. Because the objectives are to guarantee full employment. Not [only] for the short run but also for the long run. In other words this is very different from "depression economics" which is Paul Krugman's, you know, euphemism that, you know, finally the return of Keynesianism is because we're in a depression. No! We would like to achieve sustainable fiscal policy throughout the short and the long run. Okay, so what is the job guarantee in theory? Let me just synthesize some of these ideas very quickly. There is an alternative to the NAIRU. We can use an employable or employed pool of labour as the buffer stock, not the reserve army of the unemployed. So I'll explain a little bit about what that means. This is the job guarantee. Bill refers to this program as a job guarantee; there are various other... public service employment, direct job creation, you name it. But what that basically means is that you provide an unconditional offer of a public sector job at a minimum wage to anyone who wants to work. This way as a permanent program, an unconditional program, it maintains and it attains and maintains full employment. Okay, so essentially the features of the job guarantee is that this is a bubble-up policy. This is not trickle-down economics. It is a policy that hires off the bottom. It deals precisely with those that are either never employed or the ones that are last into a job and first out of a job. So it's a bottom-up approach. It operates with flexible markets via a "buffer stock" mechanism. So this is the part that we need to explain: how the job guarantee serves as this "buffer stock". And I'm using, you know, Bill Mitchell's terminology here. Who basically, you know, made the case a number of years ago that just like any other commodity buffer stock you can stabilise the price of that stock by simply selling it when it is, you know, the price is too high; buying it when the price starts falling. So you can envision labour as being a kind of buffer stock where you offer employment to all those who want a job at a base wage. And as -- that would be your stimulus; essentially that produces growth -- as that demand trickles up to the economy and the private sector rejuvenates and starts demanding labour then the private sector will be able to hire from the public sector pool by bidding up the wage. Once the private sector has been saturated or has hired as much as they desire, if you observe sort of an overheating economy, inflationary pressures, the private sector decides that it needs to downsize, then those workers will be laid off and instead of moving into unemployment they move into the public sector buffer stock. So essentially what this program does is it establishes a wage floor to labour. Today the wage floor of labour is essentially zero because you can hire somebody that is willing to work at a premium above the zero wage that they are earning at the very moment. So this is... We could talk more about this sort of mechanism but this is a program that then deals with any kind of unemployment that you are trying to solve. Cyclical unemployment, the long-term structurally unemployed, seasonal unemployment, as well as the entrance into the labor market. You know, my college students that are looking for a job. The benefits of this program of course is that it also creates an employable pool of labor and it maintains and enhances human capital. We like to always argue that this program offers both the job as well as the opportunity to improve skill, to train, and offer training and education.


つまり、責任ある財政政策とは、直接的な雇用創出を通じた雇用の安定化だと考えているのです。そして、直接的な雇用創出は、政策立案の恒久的な特徴であると考えます。なぜなら、その目的は完全雇用を保証することだからです。短期的なものだけでなく、長期的なものでもあります。つまり、これは「不況経済学」とは全く異なるもので、ポール・クルーグマンの婉曲的な言い方ですが、「ケインズ主義が復活したのは、不況だからだ」ということです。いいえ、そうではありません。私たちは、短期的にも長期的にも持続可能な財政政策を実現したいのです。さて、では理論的に雇用保証とはどのようなものでしょうか。これらのアイデアを手短にまとめてみましょう。NAIRUに代わるものがあります。失業者予備軍ではなく、雇用可能な、あるいは雇用された労働力のプールをバッファー・ストックとして使うことができます。それがどういうことか、少し説明します。これが雇用保証です。法案ではこのプログラムを雇用保証と呼んでいますが、他にも公共サービス雇用や直接雇用の創出など、さまざまなものがあります。しかし、基本的には、働きたい人には最低賃金で公共部門の仕事を無条件に提供するということです。そうすれば、恒久的なプログラムとして、無条件のプログラムとして、完全雇用を維持し、達成することができるのです。つまり、雇用保証の特徴は、バブルアップ政策であることです。これはトリクルダウン経済学ではありません。底辺から雇用する政策です。雇用されない人たち、あるいは最後に就職して最初に退職する人たちを正確に扱うのです。つまり、ボトムアップのアプローチなのです。また、「バッファー・ストック」メカニズムにより、柔軟な市場運営を行います。つまり、雇用保証がこの「バッファー・ストック」としてどのように機能するかを説明する必要があるのです。私はここでビル・ミッチェルの専門用語を使っています。彼は何年も前に、他の商品のバッファストックと同じように、価格が高すぎるときは売り、価格が下がり始めたら買うことで、その価格を安定させることができる、と言っています。ですから、労働力を一種のバッファストックとして想定し、仕事をしたい人すべてに基本給で雇用を提供することができます。そして、それが景気刺激策となり、本質的に成長をもたらします。需要が経済に浸透し、民間部門が活性化して労働力を求め始めると、民間部門は賃金をつり上げることによって公的部門から雇用することができるようになるのです。民間企業が飽和状態になり、希望する人数を雇用した後、経済が過熱し、インフレ圧力が高まり、民間企業が縮小する必要があると判断した場合、労働者は解雇され、失業する代わりに公共部門のバッファストックに移されます。このプログラムは本質的に、労働者の賃金の下限を設定するものです。現在、労働者の賃金水準は実質的にゼロです。なぜなら、その人が今得ているゼロ賃金よりも高い賃金で働く意思を持つ人を雇うことができるからです。つまり、これは... このようなメカニズムについてもっと話したいのですが、これは、解決しようとするあらゆる種類の失業に対処するプログラムです。循環的な失業、長期的な構造的失業、季節的失業、そして労働市場への参入などです。例えば、大学生が仕事を探している場合などです。このプログラムの利点は、もちろん、雇用可能な労働力のプールを作り、人的資本を維持・強化することです。私たちは、このプログラムは仕事だけでなく、スキルアップの機会、トレーニングや教育の機会も提供しているといつも主張しています。


。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。。


Fiscal Sustainability Conference 2010 (Part 9)
35:36~

civics of the policy proposal so here's an overview I'll talk about the causes of unemployment the appropriate goals for a sovereign government and by that we mean what we've been talking about all day one with a sovereign floating exchange rate non convertible currency cost of unemployment bill was getting into this in his last comment some lessons from the New Deal which we gradually forgot and then abandoning the commitment to full employment and this is almost the exact title of a book written by Bill Mitchell that is very good talking about this period and then pavlina will take over and talk about the job guarantee program in both theory and practice and how this can be used to achieve what we think are the appropriate goals of a sovereign government and contrast that with the view that growth alone is an appropriate goal and then conclude so anyway the causes of unemployment I I want to look at two different kinds of problems the first is short run causes of unemployment for example we find ourselves in a deep financial crisis with unemployment rates that are approaching great depression levels and what causes that and then turn to over the long run we also operate with chronic unemployment that is we don't normally achieve full employment and i'll talk about two problems there first demand gaps and second structural unemployment that is growth without job creation so in the current crisis we lost over 8 million approaching 9 million jobs already and I put already down because I don't believe we're anywhere near through the crisis I think this is 1931 that is were two years into the crisis and we could very well see continued job loss for many years but even if we only take the official projections of the so-called experts who do believe that we're starting on the road recovery even they agree that unemployment is going to remain high for years so even if it doesn't get worse they are saying the best-case scenario is very high unemployment for a long time the lost opportunities from this period Warren is talking about the lost output and so on of course we've got that but we also are losing opportunities for people who should have been coming into the labor force in the past two years for example my college graduates who are finding it very difficult to get any a kind of job much less a decent job we have people who have had to take part time employment rather than full-time employment and of course career advancement has been hindered by the downturn so there are lots of lost opportunities because of the crisis I think that I if we do a careful assessment of the number of jobs that we need right now it's probably well above 20 million jobs because not only do we have to replace the jobs that have been lost and make up for the jobs that should have been created to take care of the people who would have come into the labor force if it had been operating at a higher capacity but also even at the business cycle peak back in two thousand seven we were nowhere near full employment so to provide enough jobs to take care of those and get us to something close to full employment we're going to need 20 million jobs well over 20 million jobs probably and just contrast that with what Obama was promising when he came into office we're going to either create or save two to three million jobs obviously it's far too little nobody really is looking at big enough numbers I am told by people who work with politicians in Washington that a new jobs bill is still possible but they're talking about tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of jobs it's not going to be adequate nobody is thinking on the scale of the kind of program we need we need a massive number of jobs now the problem is that Washington during the first two years the crisis really wasn't focused on job creation it was closed on Main Street we all know it was focused on saving Wall Street maybe it needed to do that we probably have different opinions over whether that was necessary or not but in any case the problem is that right now both the politicians and the population at large believe we've already spent so much money how can we possibly afford to create 20 million jobs now it's too late we're not going to be able to save Main Street because we spent too much on Wall Street and so I think that this confusion about what's affordable has become the major barrier now there always is a barrier to proposing this program we've always encountered resistance to the idea that the government should be responsible for ensuring full employment and we'll try to make that case but now this affordability and oh no we've already spent so much money on Wall Street that we can't possibly afford a reasonably sized Employment Program that now the deficit hysteria is the main barrier to getting us out of this deep recession that I think will continue for many years so that is sort of our short run unemployment problem dealing with crisis and getting things going but we have had a long run employment problem and that really results from two really different causes first is and Bill was alluding to this and this is dealt with in his book that i mentioned that unemployment came to be used as a policy tool that is unemployment was not a problem to be tackled by government policy no unemployment became the policy tool to deal with the supposed problem of inflation so policy actually I was targeting unemployment using that to keep inflation rates low and so I know all the economists or anyone who studied economics them knows about the the NAIRU approach we're trying to get unemployment up high enough that it will prevent inflation or prevent inflation from accelerating and so that is the use of unemployment as a buffer stock that is and Warren describe this process those unemployed people are supposed to help keep wages from rising and then that helps keep the pressure off prices and so it keeps inflation low or marks call to the reserve army of the unemployed and so it's sort of ironic that you had people like Milton Friedman adopted Marxist ideology that we need that unemployed reserve army to keep labor in check ok so that was one aspect of the problem and then there is another aspect a structural unemployment problem I'm not going to read the the long quote here but the ILO has I produced a lot of research on structural unemployment and they noted in 2007 the date is important because this is the peak of the business cycle that we had 200 million unemployed people around the world no doubt this is a vast undercount okay I don't want to argue about that but obviously it is a very large number and they emphasize this is in spite of strong economic growth and unemployment every region in the world has to face major labor market challenges so what what they're saying is that strong economic growth is not a solution to this unemployment problem it is going to exist even with strong economic growth okay and why is that it is because growth fuels productivity growth which they said averaged 26 percent up to that business cycle of peak over the past decade on average around the world but jobs had only grown by sixteen point six percent and meanwhile of course populations are also growing and so the unemployment problem is becoming worse in spite a very strong productivity growth in fact it's not in spite of its because of its because labor is becoming more productive that we don't need as many workers in order to have economic growth and again The Economist in here will recognize this is David Ricardo's machine problem so David Ricardo pointed this out back in the 1820s he said this is going to be a continuous problem that through labor-saving technological advance we're going to create a growing pool of unemployed labor that we can't put to use so cardo was very pessimistic about the long-run outcomes we were able to put this off for a very long time because we were able to find ways around this problem by opening up new markets creating new sources of demand but it has become a chronic global problem that growth alone will not create enough jobs okay so what do we think should be the goals of a sovereign government now I think there are many we have mentioned several times that we conceived of in John Kenneth Galbraith terminology there is a public purpose so there are things we want the government to provide for us okay maybe we want decent social security for the age but I'm taking a step back from that and just in the most general terms possible what are the most important things that a sovereign government should do for us well it ought to ensure that we have full use of domestic resources and it has the fiscal capacity to do this economic growth and promoting economic growth alone is not going to give us full capacity use so we think that government ought to be focusing on full employment because it's much more important to have labor fully employed than it is to have say our agricultural resources fully employed although we ought to aim for that too but let's make full employment a primary goal and as Warren keeping it keeps emphasizing for political reasons not really free economic reasons we need to make price stability also a goal and the problem is that for a very long time orthodoxy is thought these two goals are completely in conflict you cannot have both of these at the same time you either can have full employment and then you're going to have inflation or you can have price stability but you're going to have to have a lot of unemployment okay so what we're trying to do is to promote a program that can give you full employment with price stability okay and that this should be the goal of sovereign government and our argument is it has the capacity to do this okay bill sort of got into this in his last comment and because I presume most people here are not academic economists what I'm going to say it's pretty obvious to you but to academic economists this is all new now they recognize that unemployment does have a cost and that is ok you don't fully utilize you get these open gaps as bill was talking about all right we lose some net income because those people could have been working and earning income and producing goods and services GDP could have been higher and so that's what economist focus on and it's significant okay and as bill and Warren have been arguing though the losses in the past two years are just tremendous in terms of lost GDP ok so that's one thing but the sociologists and political scientists would point to these other things which are also huge and they're almost always ignored by economists okay just run through very quickly poverty social isolation crime regional deterioration because unemployment usually is regionally concentrated in all the Americans note we can identify parts of the country that suffer from unemployment to a greater extent than others health issues family breakdown school dropouts you know this is well established in the literature outside economics it promotes violence ethnic hostility even terrorism the loss of human capital because when people are unemployed for long periods of time they become unemployable I partly because of behavioral changes but also because of the way that potential employers perceive them two years unemployed I don't want to take a chance on you so they whether it's a real human capital loss or perceived capital loss it will prevent them from having the same job opportunities that they would have had if we hadn't gone through this two-year period okay and hysteresis long-term unemployed become unemployable okay because of these all of these things that I mentioning here okay you become homeless and this is going to have a very long-term impact on your employability okay benefits of full employment again the economies are going to point to the first one they produce goods and services they add to GDP of course that is a big benefit but there are lots of other social and political benefits of achieving full employment on the job training and skill development so if you're employed you will be increasing your human capital poverty alleviation I'll mention this again in a few minutes community building social networking Pauline and we'll talk very briefly about Argentina we went down there and we saw the benefits to communities of creating jobs and areas that had had no jobs before a jobs program was created social political and economic stability are all promoted by full employment and then finally there's this notion that our colleague Matt force debtor is written about and unfortunately he was going to be here but he couldn't there are positive feedbacks reinforcing dynamics so in a sense there is a multiplier effect of all these things so if you just add up the benefits okay we get more GDP we get poverty alleviation and so on there also is a multiplied impact greater than the sum of these individual benefits from achieving full employment okay well we went through a period similar to what we're going through now and of course we had two major reforms that I think had a huge impact on our experience in the post-war period the first was that finance was downsized and constrained read John Kenneth Galbraith the great crash and it will sound extremely familiar the account he gives the kinds of financial institutions innovations practices that were all put in place the rising inequality the growth of finance all previous to the 1929 crash sound an awful lot like what we went through in the past decade okay anyway we massively downsized finance and mostly that was not the government downsizing the markets downsized it this time around we prevented the markets from doing the downsides markets wanted to downsize Wall Street okay and if we had left him alone they would have done it but we stopped him this time and then we constrained them and this helped to promote financial and economic stability in the post-war period the other kind of reform that we had was the direct job creation we created about 13 million jobs in the you know the alphabet soup of programs that we had so I've listed some of these here and the unemployment rate was greatly reduced by these programs and Marshall is written on this because I know some writers have argued that it didn't reduce the unemployment rate but that's because they counted these 13 million people is still unemployed even though they're showing up to work so it really it was a political decision I made now to understate the true impact of the new deal now the problem is that gradually this first reform was eroded in the post-war period because financial institutions found ways around the constraints which of course is natural profit seeking behavior by growing competition from unregulated financial institutions the so-called shadow banking system and a regulatory response to that oh the commercial banks that are heavily regulated can't compete with the shadow banks that are lightly regulated so we need to reduce the regulations okay so for all those reasons we got rid of most of the New Deal constraints on finance and of course the problem with the second the direct job creation is that in the post-war fairly rapid economic growth we came to believe we don't need these programs growth alone trickle down rising tide raises all boats in all these arguments that the growth will create the job so we don't need the government to engage in direct job creation in the post-war period for the first two decades or so we had the Golden Age of capitalism highest sustained growth rate we had no financial crises a 20-year paranormally in US history every 20 years we had a depression okay we not only didn't have a depression we had no financial crises so we had minor recessions but we recovered quickly but it wasn't true just for the US and bill could tell you the same story about Australia and it wasn't just true for the developed nations the developing world also had the highest sustained growth it had ever experienced in fact it was better than our industrial revolution the developing world was growing faster than the UK did during the industrial revolution so it it was a golden age of capitalism we had a commitment to high employment now bill would talk about a commitment to full employment in Australia and they probably came close to achieving that in the u.s. we never really embraced that but we did embrace high employment okay I we achieved unemployment rates for white males of three percent okay almost as good as Australia but there's only white males okay we were not really committed to full employment including women and especially african-americans and so their unemployment rates were much higher than this we had the lot of people miss named the 1946 act they say the full employment act but it wasn't the full employment it was the Employment Act okay but it did commit the government to trying to maintain a low unemployment for most groups if not full employment we had the creation of the u.s. middle class over this period they were sustained by jobs and decent wages the problem is Minsky started writing in 1957 arguing that yes we have created the conditions for economic stability a generally high wage economy a high consumption economy constrained finance economy and all of these things are conducive to rapid economic growth with financial and economic stability the problem is stability is destabilizing okay so he predicted that the financial institutions are going to gradually break free of these constraints are going to engage in risky or behavior and he also foresaw that we could start to get inflationary pressures building even before we get to full employment in this kind of economy I don't have time to go into that but anyway in the in 1962 in spite of this go an age the u.s. rediscovered poverty found out that actually we still had poverty in 1962 and so this was sort of a shock in Washington it's a book by Michael Harrington pointed this out and so they decided that we need a war on poverty and Minsky actually was involved in this war on poverty he was close to shriver and Hubert Humphrey and he wrote lots of letters to them and actually wrote papers and was writing a book on poverty and employment at this time he was at UC Berkeley and he said the problem of the war on poverty is that you're focusing on the supply side you're trying to stimulate the supply-side economic growth is going to create jobs and then we just need to make sure we have workers that are ready for the jobs so we need to emphasize more training and getting people to change their behavior get rid of the culture of poverty the Moynihan thesis and so on and then we'll have welfare for the people who aren't able to work okay so that's what the war on poverty was Minsky said this is going to fail and he wrote letters to all these people and saying the war on poverty is not going to reduce poverty it's going to fail why because first ISA is demoralizing you're telling people who are unemployed or an end poor that you got to reform yourself first okay and then maybe you'll be able to get a job without supplying them a job so even if they did it even if they went to school got educated God training we're not creating any jobs for you okay there was no significant job component in the war on poverty and Minsky calculated that if we just supplied one minimum wage job to each poor family we would lift two-thirds of all poor families out of poverty even if the minimum wage pays a total annual income below the poverty line the family is still getting income from sources and so he actually you know went into the data and calculated one minimum wage job per family would eliminate two thirds so in instead of the war on poverty he said give him jobs you'll get rid of two-thirds poverty later Stephanie and I calculated the same thing in the Clinton boom came up with exactly the same number one minimum wage job per family would eliminate two-thirds of poverty okay the final objection that Minsky had was he said okay you're going to provide welfare maybe that's a good thing the problem is Americans are not going to support support a generous enough welfare safety net in order to lift people out of poverty and of course that prediction turned out to be true yes we gave welfare but it was never enough to lift a family out of poverty what we really needed to do was give him jobs and Americans he argued will support that Americans believe that if you work you ought to be able to get out of poverty but Americans don't support giving welfare to lift people out of poverty now I the poverty rate did fall and some people have wrongly said it was the war on poverty but it wasn't it had nothing to do with it okay if you actually look at the data the reduction of poverty rates from 1962 to 1973 which was a large reduction of the poverty rate fell almost in half it was an almost entirely due to social security payments to the elderly so we greatly reduced the poverty rates of the elderly that had nothing dude war poverty gave Social Security and the other was a civil rights movement that increased the labor market outcomes mostly for African Americans okay and that was a long term trend actually that had been going on since World War two it was just a continuation of the trend and actually for African Americans poverty rate continued to fall till Reagan for the US as a whole is stopped falling in 1973 okay so anyway the war on poverty did fail just as Minsky argue that it would okay from 73 forward the US and Bill argues in his book I most or is a bill all all other developed nations abandoned the commitment to high employment and full employment outside the US and I this was associated with the rise of free market ideology we can all remember Reagan's campaign against welfare queens who supposedly Drive Cadillacs government is the problem the supply side trickle down economics is all we need Clinton arguing that we need to end welfare as we know it and I actually think there was a very good aspect to Clinton's agenda areas that we need to change the way that Americans look at poor people we need to make them see them as deserving poor and the only way to do that is to get them off welfare and into jobs I think that was completely correct the problem is Clinton didn't give him any jobs okay said we're going to take away welfare now you go get a job but he didn't provide the jobs if he had provided the jobs it would have been I think a successful policy Bush of course talking about the ownership society if you're interested you can go to the leaving Institute I've wrote a paper in 2005 that said the this promotion the ownership society for most Americans the only thing they own is our house and what we have got going on in the United States writing this 2005 is a way that's going to ensure the Americans are just going to lose their homes okay so it's actually going to reduce ownership and society and then finally we under Clinton the Democrats sort of very strangely and ironically became the party of fiscal responsibility which has always been the role of the Republican now it became the primary policy of the Democrats we got a balanced budget and they learned the wrong lesson from the Clinton years when we ran a budget surplus because the economy performed very well in terms of growth of course it was a debt household debt fueled boom which was absolutely destined to eventually collapse but the lesson they learned was Oh budget surpluses lead to rapid growth okay when actually it's a rapid growth that created the budget surpluses so anyway they Democrats become the party that's always advocating tightening fiscal policy and finally we had the rise of something that takes a variety of names jamie Galbraith called it though the predator state many people call it financialization or neoconservatism or neoliberalism Minsky actually called it the rise of money manager capitalism and that that I over the past decade well longer than that but over the past decade has built up the conditions that finally led to this crisis this is my last slide yes now pavlina is going to take over and talk about the specific policy proposal okay this is the final stretch so hanging there so today most of the day we have mostly focus on our operational understanding of government spending so now we get to the vision how do we utilize this operational understanding of government expenditures to get past the obsession with the financial ratios with these numerical measures of government success and actually get to the real thing talk about financial ratio in context of what's happening to the real economy so the our vision is I'd say a smithy envision Adam Smith its vision Adam Smith said that the wealth of a nation rests within its people so this is what Bill was talking about not wasting human resources so how do we do that so this is what we think of features of responsible fiscal poly policy we don't use unemployment and human livelihoods as means to check inflation this whole idea that brandi was addressing that somehow unemployment is a necessary evil and we have to put up with it in order to maintain price stability there is the empirical evidence first of all is very spotty on this economy is constantly redefined their NAIRU or their inflationary barriers and you know you look at the data it's very difficult to find this particular level so let's just measure a fiscal policy in terms of employment creation effects this is how we tend to see things and if so long as we're living in a monetary production economy where the access to livelihood is a wage paying job then that should be the criteria for responsible fiscal policy but you know we can debate that these are the questions that sort of emerged from from the historical perspective the Randy provided and also you will see how we believe that this kind of approach utilizes this operational knowledge that we've just built to build a very sustained of system so we are redefining sustainability in terms of employment creation price stability as opposed to certain debt GDP ratios we have to switch the conversation we really need to reorient our thinking about fiscal policy I like to argue that it's done in a backwards way that what we are attempting to do is plug some demand gap whatever that means and Randy's was alluding to this you know we we fixed some growth rate you know we come up with measures of potential output we don't really know how much labor went into the production of that potential output would happen to the structure of the economy how much was you know output produced by labor replacing technology we have no sense of this sort of dynamic forces that are determining output so we we like to measure potential output in terms of men and women put to work so the way to flip fiscal policy is not to target a demand gap is that's not very clear what that means but instead to target a labor demand gap and you know we were arguing that this delivers more bang for the buck we do not know today how much more even if we agreed that maybe deficit spending our is sustainable right even if even in the most sympathetic i would say commentators to the deficit say look we need to push for that we got a def suspend we still don't know how much we need to spend how large deficit spending is large enough to produce the real outcomes that we are aiming for so what we are proposing is that we actually tie deficit spending directly to the objective and you know exactly how much you need to spend how many people do you want to put to work obama wants to save and create three to four million people okay put them to work you know exactly what your wage bill is going to be you're going to find out your materials and your cost if you want to create 10 million jobs you know what your budget is going to be and you have directly achieved the goal as opposed to going backwards through this vision of producing growth and hoping that somehow the growth will lift up all boats and trickle down to the economy and the kind of job Joe so we we see a responsible fiscal policy as an employment stabilization via direct job creation and we see direct job creation is a permanent feature of policymaking it's because the objectives are to guarantee full employment not for the short run but also for the long run in other words this is very different from depression economics which is pro Krugman's you know euphemism that you know finally the return of Keynesianism is because we're in a depression no we would like to achieve sustainable fiscal policy throughout the short and the long run okay so what is the job guarantee in theory let me just synthesize some of these ideas very quickly there is an alternative to deny there is we can use unemployable or employed pool of labor as the buffer stock not the reserve army of the unemployed so I'll explain a little bit what what that means this is the job a guarantee bill refers to this program as a job guarantee their various other public service employment direct job creation you name it but what that basically means is that you provide an unconditional offer of a public sector employee job to at a minimum wage to anyone one who wants to work this way as a permanent program and conditional program it maintains and it attains and maintains for employment okay so essentially the features of the job guarantees that this is a bubble of policy this is not trickle down economics it is a policy that hires off the bottom it deals precisely with those that are either never employed or the ones that are last into a job and first out of a job so it's a bottom-up approach it operates with flexible markets via a buffer stock mechanism so this is the part that we need to explain how the job guarantee serves as this buffer stock and I'm using you know bill Mitchell's terminology here who basically you know made the case number of years ago that just like any you know commodity buffer stock you can stabilize the price of that of that stock by simply selling selling it when it is you know the price is too high buying it when the price starts falling so you can envision labor as being a kind of buffer stock where you offer an employment to all those who want a job at a base wage and as that would be your stimulus essentially that produces growth as that demand trickles up to the economy and the private sector rejuvenates and starts demanding labor then the private sector will be able to hire from the public sector pool by bidding up the wage once the private sector has been saturated or has hired as much as they as they desire if you observe sort of an overheating economy inflationary pressures the private sector decides that it needs to downsize then those workers will be laid off and instead of moving into unemployment they move into the public sector buffer stock so essentially what this program does is it establishes a wage floor to labor today the wage floor of labor is essentially zero because you can hire somebody that is willing to work at a premium above the zero wage there or earning at the very moment so this is how we could talk more about this sort of mechanism but this is a program that then deals with any kind of unemployment that you are trying to solve cyclical unemployment the long-term structurally unemployed seasonal unemployment as well as the entrance into the labor market you know my college students that are looking for a job the benefits of this program of course is that it also creates an employable pool of labor and it maintains and enhances a human capital we like to always argue that this / offers both the job as well as an opportunity to improve skill to train enough for training and education it's a targeted program as opposed to this this indiscriminate aggregate demand management program that the plan that we seem to be implementing today or in the way fiscal policy is conducted today it's very targeted you know where the unemployed are you take the contract to the worker you deal with distressed areas you look at their resources you look at their needs and you mobilize them so it's a very targeted approach it also is an approach that takes workers as they are you're not trying to you know educate people and hopefully they will find they will become employable in the eyes of the private sector and find employment you provide the opportunity and then also you provide other opportunities to train to become employable and transition to the private sector so this program can be seen as a transitional employment program its safety net that captures the unemployed and prepares them for private sector work if they so desire of course the project's have to be useful and valuable we all think that there are plenty of useful things to do so just to summarize is the voluntary program nobody is forced into working for it for this job guarantee the spending level is always at the right level however many people show up for it that's how much you spend you don't spend more than necessary and you don't understand in a sense and it has the transformative impact on workers on firms on communities and on the economy i think i've already said a lot of a lot of the things that i've listed here I know firms also benefit from this because it replaces unemployed with employable workers it reduces their training costs they have a visible pool of labor they know what these potential private-sector workers have worked what kind of experience they have received and so they benefit from that as well this is a policy that can lift the floor so are going back to the earlier discussion about taxing the rich and how do we redistribute while you could you can improve the income distribution by lifting the floor and if you set the wage of the appropriate level then that would lift people out of poverty okay it's a permanent program and by permanent program again I just want to emphasize that it just doesn't it doesn't mean more demand it might mean more better distributed demand okay the job guarantee the macro stability the just let me touch on this once again that the wage provides an inbuilt inflation control mechanism then this is because the compensation package establishes the floor this is the floor to a standard of living for the entire nation again you spend on this fixed price floating quantity rule this is what the previous speakers were alluding to previously you fix the price of Labor and then let the blood the budget float with with the needs of the economy when the economy decelerates the budget expands as those workers enter the public sector as the econo Blue it has an expansionary effect when the economy growth the budget automatically contracts US workers move out into private sector jobs so that's the counter cyclical mechanism and we we just become benchmark for the prices to the extended wages are an input of production of all reproducible assets then that will serve as an anchor to prices as well okay so full full employment and price stability also promotes currency stability and the idea here is that we you know we are establishing better anchors than the current system we use labour as that anchor this is not a solution for all labor market problems we can use this program as an institutional vehicle as a program to address specific goals may one urban you know in a city renewal maybe you want green infrastructure investment you can use those resources then to direct them to the specific things you want to do they there will be other things that you might want to be you know deal with labor market discrimination other things this is not a panacea for all labor market problems but it's definitely better than the unemployment buffer stock so let me very briefly talk about Argentina Argentina is one of the most recent cases of implementing a program that mimics the job guarantee it is not job guarantee i want to emphasize it's actually a limited program but it was a large-scale program it was implemented quite quickly and an hour view effectively so we have been studying this program and looking at the macro effects as well as going to projects and visited those projects to see what they did and how they impacted people now even though it was a smaller program it still exhibited the features that I was just discussing of this sort of macro Universal job guarantee program the Argentinian program was implemented as an emergency measure it was depression economics how people took to the streets they demanded from the government jobs the government gave them jobs and they gave them jobs the program was running up and running in a few months just like the New Deal era experience we were able to organize things to do for the unemployed relatively quickly it was a part-time job it offered four hours of community work to the unemployed heads of households at a minimum hourly wage and two million people showed up for work this is about thirteen percent of the labor force in Argentina and Argentina granted is coming down from twenty-five percent of an unemployment so they you know their levels were close to our real actual unemployment levels but higher than our official levels they had this program had a considerable impact on the poor and especially on women and minorities who had access to this job it was counter-cyclical it stabilized output prices and currency you look at the data and you find all of those indicators stabilized GDP growth was between eight and twelve percent from 2003 to 2007 and only in the last year dipped to five percent so if job creation that produces growth as opposed to the other way around the government budget moved into surplus the variety of things going on there but of course you're generating a large you know a large amount of income switch are being taxed the multiplier effect of this program I've looked at some of the measures and some of the more conservative measures are is 2.57 meaning that for every dollar spent on the program you're creating two point six dollars and of output now and what happened did people get stuck in the public sector now actually what happened was that as the economy recovered many workers transitioned into private sector jobs it has it was organized in a very interesting way I can tell you about all those institutional details how it was administered how it was how the resources were mobilized but suffice to say it was federally funded locally administered the government actually maintained a database of skill and experience of the unemployed help them transition to private sector jobs as well and from our visits as well it was obvious what kind of impact this program had on the poor it empowered it provided on the job training every project that we went to see had an adjacent room with literacy education with training with various other courses that they can take I like to see this is like a new form of microfinance as opposed to lending to people you just give them a grant for the wages and for the materials get them on their feet get them to produce something and pretty much every project that we saw was some people that set up shops carpentry shops or baby clothes tailoring shops or toy shops something that they could then sell on the market but there were also products that were freely distributed to the poor lots of food kitchens daycare center public libraries elder care centers for the abused etc again the employers have hired from the pool in the economy the economy stabilized very quickly one benefit of this was that it formalized the informal sector in Argentina actually there's a very large share of the economy that's a great economy those that used to work under the table where you should social security tax which cards they would be when they transition to private sector jobs now they were working under contract the program established a wage floor from all the people that transition you know a sort of the wage floor because the limited program but from all the people that transition from the public sector job to the private sector they were all hired at a premium ninety-seven percent of those were hired at a premium and communities were transformed i can give you lots of examples but what was interesting is that the unemployed themselves proposed a lot of these projects they were the ones that actually invented the kinds of things that they did they did massive landfill cleanups and recycling initiatives and on and on and on so these are some some pictures of of projects that we visited and you know lots of food kitchens they were lots of poor poor communities but there were things like health promotion programs subsistence farming there were a lot of projects outside of the Greater Buenos Aires area which we visited the dealt with the agricultural projects you know water irrigation clay pits etc so again growth itself is not the appropriate target and it's are you know you have to you have to wet it to job creation it can promote inequality in this sort of progra for growth at all costs approach can promote inequality it can harm the environment we haven't really said anything about the environment yet so we are you know we are really looking at a bottom-up approach and that looks at full employment through direct job creation a job guarantee we view this as a program for shared prosperity you can set an environmentally sustainable growth path and maintain price and currency stability we can do it we have done it once in the past is have other countries in one form or another it's the right thing to do I think we could debate this but you know I want to get back to the point about having access to a job as a basic human right and I in my opinion i think obama just needs a Roosevelt Ian resolve we could talk more about this later but you know just the wage bill just the wage bill of hiring 20 million people a day I think Warren has proposed a tower of dollars an hour or you could do a living wage of ten twelve dollars an hour we're looking at 350 to 500 billion dollars compare this you know to the other expenditures but i want to emphasize costs here not in terms of financial costs art is not necessarily the problem i just want to show you that in perspective you could get deliver so much more bang for the buck in real in real terms if you target your programs so we have a deficit in convictions I think deficit in cleverness not necessarily an ability to fund and let me end with a couple of quotes one is by FDR that says that you know the liberty of a democracy is not safe if its business system does not provide employment and producing distribute goods in such a way as to sustain an acceptable standard of living and the last quote is the a quote from Cannes this is something that we as academics constantly run against and that's this idea that we have to keep five percent or ten percent of the population in idleness the conservative believe that there is some law of nature which prevents men from being employed that it is rashed to employ men or women and that it is financially sound to maintain a tenth of the population in idleness is crazily improbable the sort of thing which no man could believe who had not had his head followed with nonsense for years and years thank you yeah yeah wait a Warren reminded me that you know as I said they have been many countries that have done this in one form one another Bill Mitchell has been working on the South African program but India passed a job guarantee law which basically guarantees a hundred days of community work to the unemployed and it's a law that's still being worked out but there is a movement out there I mean people are recognizing the benefits the very many benefits of this approach and so I think there are plenty of examples to to look to you


0:16

civics of the policy proposal so here's

0:23

an overview I'll talk about the causes of unemployment the appropriate goals for a sovereign government and by that

0:31

we mean what we've been talking about all day one with a sovereign floating exchange rate non convertible currency

0:38

cost of unemployment bill was getting into this in his last comment some

0:43

lessons from the New Deal which we gradually forgot and then abandoning the

0:51

commitment to full employment and this is almost the exact title of a book written by Bill Mitchell that is very

0:58

good talking about this period and then pavlina will take over and talk about

1:05

the job guarantee program in both theory

1:10

and practice and how this can be used to achieve what we think are the

1:15

appropriate goals of a sovereign government and contrast that with the

1:20

view that growth alone is an appropriate goal and then conclude so anyway the

1:27

causes of unemployment I I want to look at two different kinds of problems the

1:35

first is short run causes of unemployment for example we find

1:41

ourselves in a deep financial crisis with unemployment rates that are

1:47

approaching great depression levels and what causes that and then turn to over

1:57

the long run we also operate with chronic unemployment that is we don't

2:04

normally achieve full employment and i'll talk about two problems there first

2:12

demand gaps and second structural unemployment that is growth without job creation so in the

2:21

current crisis we lost over 8 million approaching 9 million jobs already and I

2:26

put already down because I don't believe we're anywhere near through the crisis I

2:32

think this is 1931 that is were two years into the crisis and we could very

2:39

well see continued job loss for many years but even if we only take the

2:48

official projections of the so-called experts who do believe that we're

2:54

starting on the road recovery even they agree that unemployment is going to remain high for years so even if it

3:01

doesn't get worse they are saying the best-case scenario is very high unemployment for a long time the lost

3:12

opportunities from this period Warren is talking about the lost output and so on

3:17

of course we've got that but we also are losing opportunities for people who

3:22

should have been coming into the labor force in the past two years for example my college graduates who are finding it

3:29

very difficult to get any a kind of job much less a decent job we have people

3:36

who have had to take part time employment rather than full-time employment and of course career

3:43

advancement has been hindered by the downturn so there are lots of lost opportunities because of the crisis I

3:51

think that I if we do a careful assessment of the number of jobs that we

3:58

need right now it's probably well above 20 million jobs because not only do we

4:04

have to replace the jobs that have been lost and make up for the jobs that should have been created to take care of

4:11

the people who would have come into the labor force if it had been operating

4:16

at a higher capacity but also even at the business cycle peak back in two

4:21

thousand seven we were nowhere near full employment so to provide enough jobs to

4:27

take care of those and get us to something close to full employment we're

4:32

going to need 20 million jobs well over 20 million jobs probably and just

4:38

contrast that with what Obama was promising when he came into office we're going to either create or save two to

4:45

three million jobs obviously it's far too little nobody really is looking at

4:50

big enough numbers I am told by people who work with politicians in Washington

4:56

that a new jobs bill is still possible but they're talking about tens or maybe

5:03

hundreds of thousands of jobs it's not going to be adequate nobody is thinking on the scale of the kind of program we

5:11

need we need a massive number of jobs now the problem is that Washington

5:19

during the first two years the crisis really wasn't focused on job creation it was closed on Main Street we all know it

5:26

was focused on saving Wall Street maybe it needed to do that we probably have

5:31

different opinions over whether that was necessary or not but in any case the

5:37

problem is that right now both the politicians and the population at large

5:43

believe we've already spent so much money how can we possibly afford to

5:48

create 20 million jobs now it's too late we're not going to be able to save Main Street because we spent too much on Wall

5:56

Street and so I think that this confusion about what's affordable has

6:01

become the major barrier now there always is a barrier to proposing this program we've always encountered

6:08

resistance to the idea that the government should be responsible for ensuring full employment and we'll try

6:14

to make that case but now this affordability and oh no we've already spent so much money on Wall Street that

6:21

we can't possibly afford a reasonably sized Employment Program

6:28

that now the deficit hysteria is the main barrier to getting us out of this

6:35

deep recession that I think will continue for many years so that is sort

6:41

of our short run unemployment problem dealing with crisis and getting things

6:46

going but we have had a long run employment problem and that really

6:54

results from two really different causes

7:00

first is and Bill was alluding to this and this is dealt with in his book that

7:06

i mentioned that unemployment came to be used as a policy tool that is

7:13

unemployment was not a problem to be tackled by government policy no

7:19

unemployment became the policy tool to deal with the supposed problem of

7:27

inflation so policy actually I was

7:33

targeting unemployment using that to

7:39

keep inflation rates low and so I know all the economists or anyone who studied economics them knows about the the NAIRU

7:45

approach we're trying to get unemployment up high enough that it will prevent inflation or prevent inflation

7:53

from accelerating and so that is the use

7:58

of unemployment as a buffer stock that is and Warren describe this process

8:05

those unemployed people are supposed to help keep wages from rising and then that helps keep the pressure off prices

8:13

and so it keeps inflation low or marks call to the reserve army of the unemployed and so it's sort of ironic

8:20

that you had people like Milton Friedman adopted Marxist ideology that we need

8:26

that unemployed reserve army to keep labor in check ok so that was

8:34

one aspect of the problem and then there is another aspect a structural unemployment problem I'm not going to

8:41

read the the long quote here but the ILO has I produced a lot of research on

8:48

structural unemployment and they noted in 2007 the date is important because

8:54

this is the peak of the business cycle that we had 200 million unemployed

9:00

people around the world no doubt this is a vast undercount okay I don't want to argue about that but obviously it is a

9:07

very large number and they emphasize this is in spite of strong economic

9:14

growth and unemployment every region in the world has to face major labor market

9:20

challenges so what what they're saying is that strong economic growth is not a

9:25

solution to this unemployment problem it is going to exist even with strong economic growth okay and why is that it

9:34

is because growth fuels productivity growth which they said averaged 26

9:44

percent up to that business cycle of peak over the past decade on average around the world but jobs had only grown

9:52

by sixteen point six percent and meanwhile of course populations are also growing and so the unemployment problem

9:59

is becoming worse in spite a very strong productivity growth in fact it's not in spite of its because of its because

10:07

labor is becoming more productive that we don't need as many workers in order

10:13

to have economic growth and again The Economist in here will recognize this is David Ricardo's machine problem so David

10:20

Ricardo pointed this out back in the 1820s he said this is going to be a

10:25

continuous problem that through labor-saving technological advance we're

10:31

going to create a growing pool of unemployed labor that we can't put to use so

10:36

cardo was very pessimistic about the long-run outcomes we were able to put

10:44

this off for a very long time because we were able to find ways around this problem by opening up new markets

10:51

creating new sources of demand but it has become a chronic global problem that

10:58

growth alone will not create enough jobs okay so what do we think should be the

11:07

goals of a sovereign government now I think there are many we have mentioned several times that we conceived of in

11:14

John Kenneth Galbraith terminology there is a public purpose so there are things

11:19

we want the government to provide for us okay maybe we want decent social

11:25

security for the age but I'm taking a step back from that and just in the most

11:30

general terms possible what are the most important things that a sovereign government should do for us well it

11:38

ought to ensure that we have full use of domestic resources and it has the fiscal

11:47

capacity to do this economic growth and promoting economic growth alone is not

11:54

going to give us full capacity use so we think that government ought to be

12:01

focusing on full employment because it's much more important to have labor fully

12:06

employed than it is to have say our agricultural resources fully employed

12:12

although we ought to aim for that too but let's make full employment a primary

12:19

goal and as Warren keeping it keeps emphasizing for political reasons not

12:25

really free economic reasons we need to make price stability also a goal and the

12:31

problem is that for a very long time orthodoxy is thought these two goals are completely in conflict you cannot have

12:38

both of these at the same time you either can have full employment and then you're going to have inflation

12:44

or you can have price stability but you're going to have to have a lot of unemployment okay so what we're trying

12:50

to do is to promote a program that can give you full employment with price

12:57

stability okay and that this should be the goal of sovereign government and our

13:04

argument is it has the capacity to do this okay bill sort of got into this in

13:10

his last comment and because I presume most people here are not academic

13:16

economists what I'm going to say it's pretty obvious to you but to academic economists this is all new now they

13:24

recognize that unemployment does have a cost and that is ok you don't fully

13:31

utilize you get these open gaps as bill was talking about all right we lose some

13:37

net income because those people could have been working and earning income and producing goods and services GDP could

13:44

have been higher and so that's what economist focus on and it's significant okay and as bill and Warren have been

13:52

arguing though the losses in the past two years are just tremendous in terms

13:58

of lost GDP ok so that's one thing but the sociologists and political

14:06

scientists would point to these other things which are also huge and they're almost always ignored by economists okay

14:14

just run through very quickly poverty social isolation crime regional

14:21

deterioration because unemployment usually is regionally concentrated in all the Americans note we can identify

14:28

parts of the country that suffer from unemployment to a greater extent than

14:34

others health issues family breakdown school dropouts you know this is well

14:39

established in the literature outside economics it promotes violence ethnic

14:45

hostility even terrorism the loss of human capital because when people are

14:51

unemployed for long periods of time they become unemployable I partly

14:57

because of behavioral changes but also because of the way that potential

15:03

employers perceive them two years unemployed I don't want to take a chance

15:08

on you so they whether it's a real human capital loss or perceived capital loss

15:14

it will prevent them from having the same job opportunities that they would

15:20

have had if we hadn't gone through this two-year period okay and hysteresis

15:25

long-term unemployed become unemployable okay because of these all of these

15:31

things that I mentioning here okay you become homeless and this is going to

15:39

have a very long-term impact on your employability okay benefits of full employment again the economies are going

15:46

to point to the first one they produce goods and services they add to GDP of course that is a big benefit but there

15:53

are lots of other social and political benefits of achieving full employment on

16:00

the job training and skill development so if you're employed you will be

16:06

increasing your human capital poverty alleviation I'll mention this again in a

16:12

few minutes community building social networking Pauline and we'll talk very

16:17

briefly about Argentina we went down there and we saw the benefits to communities of creating jobs and areas

16:25

that had had no jobs before a jobs program was created social political and

16:34

economic stability are all promoted by full employment and then finally there's

16:41

this notion that our colleague Matt force debtor is written about and unfortunately he was going to be here

16:47

but he couldn't there are positive feedbacks reinforcing dynamics so in a

16:54

sense there is a multiplier effect of all these things so if you just add up the benefits okay we get more GDP we get

17:01

poverty alleviation and so on there also is a multiplied impact greater than the sum

17:07

of these individual benefits from achieving full employment okay well we

17:17

went through a period similar to what we're going through now and of course we

17:23

had two major reforms that I think had a huge impact on our experience in the

17:33

post-war period the first was that finance was downsized and constrained

17:40

read John Kenneth Galbraith the great crash and it will sound extremely

17:46

familiar the account he gives the kinds

17:52

of financial institutions innovations practices that were all put in place the

17:57

rising inequality the growth of finance all previous to the 1929 crash sound an

18:04

awful lot like what we went through in the past decade okay anyway we massively

18:09

downsized finance and mostly that was not the government downsizing the markets downsized it this time around we

18:17

prevented the markets from doing the downsides markets wanted to downsize Wall Street okay and if we had left him

18:22

alone they would have done it but we stopped him this time and then we constrained them and this helped to

18:30

promote financial and economic stability in the post-war period the other kind of

18:37

reform that we had was the direct job creation we created about 13 million

18:42

jobs in the you know the alphabet soup of programs that we had so I've listed some of these here and the unemployment

18:51

rate was greatly reduced by these programs and Marshall is written on this

18:58

because I know some writers have argued that it didn't reduce the unemployment rate but that's because they counted

19:04

these 13 million people is still unemployed even though they're showing up to work so it really it was a

19:09

political decision I made now to understate the true impact

19:16

of the new deal now the problem is that gradually this first reform was eroded

19:24

in the post-war period because financial institutions found ways around the

19:29

constraints which of course is natural profit seeking behavior by growing

19:35

competition from unregulated financial institutions the so-called shadow

19:41

banking system and a regulatory response to that oh the commercial banks that are

19:47

heavily regulated can't compete with the shadow banks that are lightly regulated so we need to reduce the regulations

19:53

okay so for all those reasons we got rid of most of the New Deal constraints on

19:59

finance and of course the problem with the second the direct job creation is

20:04

that in the post-war fairly rapid economic growth we came to believe we

20:11

don't need these programs growth alone trickle down rising tide raises all

20:16

boats in all these arguments that the growth will create the job so we don't need the government to engage in direct

20:23

job creation in the post-war period for

20:30

the first two decades or so we had the Golden Age of capitalism highest

20:37

sustained growth rate we had no financial crises a 20-year paranormally

20:42

in US history every 20 years we had a depression okay we not only didn't have a depression we had no financial crises

20:49

so we had minor recessions but we

20:54

recovered quickly but it wasn't true just for the US and bill could tell you the same story about Australia and it

21:00

wasn't just true for the developed nations the developing world also had the highest sustained growth it had ever

21:07

experienced in fact it was better than our industrial revolution the developing

21:12

world was growing faster than the UK did during the industrial revolution so it

21:18

it was a golden age of capitalism we had

21:25

a commitment to high employment now bill would talk about a commitment to full employment in Australia and they

21:31

probably came close to achieving that in the u.s. we never really embraced that

21:37

but we did embrace high employment okay I we achieved unemployment rates for

21:44

white males of three percent okay almost as good as Australia but there's only white males okay we were not really

21:51

committed to full employment including women and especially african-americans

21:58

and so their unemployment rates were much higher than this we had the lot of

22:04

people miss named the 1946 act they say the full employment act but it wasn't the full employment it was the

22:10

Employment Act okay but it did commit the government to trying to maintain a

22:16

low unemployment for most groups if not full employment we had the creation of

22:22

the u.s. middle class over this period they were sustained by jobs and decent

22:28

wages the problem is Minsky started writing in 1957 arguing that yes we have

22:37

created the conditions for economic stability a generally high wage economy

22:43

a high consumption economy constrained finance economy and all of these things

22:50

are conducive to rapid economic growth with financial and economic stability the problem is stability is

22:56

destabilizing okay so he predicted that the financial institutions are going to gradually break free of these

23:02

constraints are going to engage in risky or behavior and he also foresaw that we

23:10

could start to get inflationary pressures building even before we get to full employment in this kind of economy

23:17

I don't have time to go into that but anyway in the in 1962 in spite of this

23:26

go an age the u.s. rediscovered poverty found out that actually we still had

23:32

poverty in 1962 and so this was sort of a shock in Washington it's a book by

23:37

Michael Harrington pointed this out and so they decided that we need a war on

23:43

poverty and Minsky actually was involved in this war on poverty he was close to

23:48

shriver and Hubert Humphrey and he wrote lots of letters to them and actually

23:56

wrote papers and was writing a book on poverty and employment at this time he

24:04

was at UC Berkeley and he said the problem of the war on poverty is that

24:09

you're focusing on the supply side you're trying to stimulate the supply-side economic growth is going to

24:17

create jobs and then we just need to make sure we have workers that are ready for the jobs so we need to emphasize

24:23

more training and getting people to change their behavior get rid of the culture of poverty the Moynihan thesis

24:30

and so on and then we'll have welfare for the people who aren't able to work

24:35

okay so that's what the war on poverty was Minsky said this is going to fail and he wrote letters to all these people

24:42

and saying the war on poverty is not going to reduce poverty it's going to fail why because first ISA is

24:49

demoralizing you're telling people who are unemployed or an end poor that you

24:55

got to reform yourself first okay and then maybe you'll be able to get a job without supplying them a job so even if

25:02

they did it even if they went to school got educated God training we're not creating any jobs for you okay there was

25:10

no significant job component in the war on poverty and Minsky calculated that if

25:18

we just supplied one minimum wage job to each poor family we would lift

25:24

two-thirds of all poor families out of poverty even if the minimum wage pays a

25:30

total annual income below the poverty line the family is still getting income

25:35

from sources and so he actually you know went into the data and calculated one minimum wage job per family would eliminate two

25:43

thirds so in instead of the war on poverty he said give him jobs you'll get

25:48

rid of two-thirds poverty later Stephanie and I calculated the same thing in the Clinton boom came up with

25:55

exactly the same number one minimum wage job per family would eliminate two-thirds of poverty okay the final

26:06

objection that Minsky had was he said okay you're going to provide welfare maybe that's a good thing the problem is

26:13

Americans are not going to support support a generous enough welfare safety net in order to lift people out of

26:20

poverty and of course that prediction turned out to be true yes we gave welfare but it was never enough to lift

26:27

a family out of poverty what we really needed to do was give him jobs and Americans he argued will support that

26:34

Americans believe that if you work you ought to be able to get out of poverty but Americans don't support giving

26:39

welfare to lift people out of poverty now I the poverty rate did fall and some

26:45

people have wrongly said it was the war on poverty but it wasn't it had nothing to do with it okay if you actually look

26:51

at the data the reduction of poverty rates from 1962 to 1973 which was a

27:00

large reduction of the poverty rate fell almost in half it was an almost entirely

27:05

due to social security payments to the elderly so we greatly reduced the

27:12

poverty rates of the elderly that had nothing dude war poverty gave Social Security and the other was a civil

27:18

rights movement that increased the labor market outcomes mostly for African

27:24

Americans okay and that was a long term trend actually that had been going on since World War two it was just a

27:30

continuation of the trend and actually for African Americans poverty rate continued to fall till Reagan for the US

27:39

as a whole is stopped falling in 1973 okay so anyway the war on poverty did

27:46

fail just as Minsky argue that it would okay from 73 forward the US and Bill

27:55

argues in his book I most or is a bill all all other developed nations

28:03

abandoned the commitment to high employment and full employment outside

28:09

the US and I this was associated with the rise of free market ideology we can

28:16

all remember Reagan's campaign against welfare queens who supposedly Drive

28:22

Cadillacs government is the problem the supply side trickle down economics is

28:28

all we need Clinton arguing that we need to end welfare as we know it and I

28:35

actually think there was a very good aspect to Clinton's agenda areas that we

28:41

need to change the way that Americans look at poor people we need to make them

28:46

see them as deserving poor and the only way to do that is to get them off welfare and into jobs I think that was

28:52

completely correct the problem is Clinton didn't give him any jobs okay said we're going to take away welfare now you go get a job but he didn't

28:59

provide the jobs if he had provided the jobs it would have been I think a successful policy Bush of course talking

29:06

about the ownership society if you're interested you can go to the leaving Institute I've wrote a paper in 2005

29:11

that said the this promotion the ownership society for most Americans the only thing they own is our house and

29:19

what we have got going on in the United States writing this 2005 is a way that's

29:24

going to ensure the Americans are just going to lose their homes okay so it's actually going to reduce ownership and

29:31

society and then finally we under

29:37

Clinton the Democrats sort of very strangely and ironically became the

29:42

party of fiscal responsibility which has always been the role of the Republican now it became the primary policy of the

29:50

Democrats we got a balanced budget and they learned the wrong lesson from the Clinton years when we ran a budget

29:57

surplus because the economy performed very well in terms of growth of course

30:03

it was a debt household debt fueled boom which was absolutely destined to

30:12

eventually collapse but the lesson they learned was Oh budget surpluses lead to

30:19

rapid growth okay when actually it's a rapid growth that created the budget surpluses so anyway they Democrats

30:27

become the party that's always advocating tightening fiscal policy and

30:32

finally we had the rise of something that takes a variety of names jamie

30:39

Galbraith called it though the predator state many people call it financialization or neoconservatism or

30:46

neoliberalism Minsky actually called it the rise of money manager capitalism and

30:52

that that I over the past decade well longer than that but over the past

30:59

decade has built up the conditions that finally led to this crisis this is my

31:06

last slide yes now pavlina is going to take over and talk about the specific policy proposal

31:16

okay this is the final stretch so hanging there so today most of the day

31:23

we have mostly focus on our operational understanding of government spending so

31:29

now we get to the vision how do we utilize this operational understanding

31:34

of government expenditures to get past the obsession with the financial ratios

31:40

with these numerical measures of government success and actually get to the real thing talk about financial

31:47

ratio in context of what's happening to the real economy so the our vision is

31:54

I'd say a smithy envision Adam Smith its vision Adam Smith said that the wealth

31:59

of a nation rests within its people so this is what Bill was talking about not wasting human resources so how do we do

32:06

that so this is what we think of features of responsible fiscal poly

32:12

policy we don't use unemployment and human livelihoods as means to check

32:17

inflation this whole idea that brandi was addressing that somehow unemployment

32:23

is a necessary evil and we have to put up with it in order to maintain price

32:28

stability there is the empirical evidence first of all is very spotty on

32:33

this economy is constantly redefined their NAIRU or their inflationary barriers and you know you look at the

32:40

data it's very difficult to find this particular level so let's just measure a

32:47

fiscal policy in terms of employment creation effects this is how we tend to

32:53

see things and if so long as we're living in a monetary production economy

32:59

where the access to livelihood is a wage paying job then that should be the

33:05

criteria for responsible fiscal policy

33:10

but you know we can debate that these are the questions that sort of emerged from from the historical perspective the

33:16

Randy provided and also you will see how we believe that this kind of approach utilizes this operational knowledge that

33:25

we've just built to build a very sustained of system so we are redefining sustainability in terms of employment

33:31

creation price stability as opposed to certain debt GDP ratios we have to

33:39

switch the conversation we really need to reorient our thinking about fiscal policy I like to argue that it's done in

33:46

a backwards way that what we are attempting to do is plug some demand gap whatever that means and Randy's was

33:53

alluding to this you know we we fixed some growth rate you know we come up with measures of potential output we

34:00

don't really know how much labor went into the production of that potential output would happen to the structure of

34:05

the economy how much was you know output produced by labor replacing technology we have no sense of this sort of dynamic

34:12

forces that are determining output so we we like to measure potential output in

34:18

terms of men and women put to work so the way to flip fiscal policy is not to

34:24

target a demand gap is that's not very clear what that means but instead to

34:29

target a labor demand gap and you know

34:36

we were arguing that this delivers more bang for the buck we do not know today

34:41

how much more even if we agreed that maybe deficit spending our is sustainable right even if even in the

34:48

most sympathetic i would say commentators to the deficit say look we need to push for that we got a def

34:53

suspend we still don't know how much we need to spend how large deficit spending

34:59

is large enough to produce the real outcomes that we are aiming for so what we are proposing is that we actually tie

35:06

deficit spending directly to the objective and you know exactly how much you need to spend how many people do you

35:13

want to put to work obama wants to save and create three to four million people okay put them to work you know exactly

35:18

what your wage bill is going to be you're going to find out your materials and your cost if you want to create 10

35:23

million jobs you know what your budget is going to be and you have directly achieved the goal as opposed to going

35:29

backwards through this vision of producing growth and hoping that somehow

35:35

the growth will lift up all boats and trickle down to the economy and the kind of job Joe so we we see a

35:43

responsible fiscal policy as an employment stabilization via direct job creation and we see direct job creation

35:50

is a permanent feature of policymaking it's because the objectives are to

35:57

guarantee full employment not for the short run but also for the long run in other words this is very different from

36:03

depression economics which is pro Krugman's you know euphemism that you

36:08

know finally the return of Keynesianism is because we're in a depression no we would like to achieve sustainable fiscal

36:14

policy throughout the short and the long run okay so what is the job guarantee in

36:19

theory let me just synthesize some of these ideas very quickly there is an alternative to deny there is we can use

36:27

unemployable or employed pool of labor as the buffer stock not the reserve army of the unemployed so I'll explain a

36:34

little bit what what that means this is the job a guarantee bill refers to this

36:40

program as a job guarantee their various other public service employment direct job creation you name it but what that

36:47

basically means is that you provide an unconditional offer of a public sector

36:52

employee job to at a minimum wage to anyone one who wants to work this way as

37:00

a permanent program and conditional program it maintains and it attains and

37:06

maintains for employment okay so essentially the features of the job guarantees that this is a bubble of

37:12

policy this is not trickle down economics it is a policy that hires off

37:17

the bottom it deals precisely with those that are either never employed or the

37:24

ones that are last into a job and first out of a job so it's a bottom-up

37:30

approach it operates with flexible markets via a buffer stock mechanism so

37:36

this is the part that we need to explain how the job guarantee serves as this buffer stock and I'm using you know bill

37:42

Mitchell's terminology here who basically you know made the case number

37:48

of years ago that just like any you know commodity buffer stock you can stabilize the price of that of that

37:55

stock by simply selling selling it when

38:00

it is you know the price is too high buying it when the price starts falling so you can envision labor as being a

38:07

kind of buffer stock where you offer an employment to all those who want a job

38:14

at a base wage and as that would be your

38:19

stimulus essentially that produces growth as that demand trickles up to the economy and the private sector

38:25

rejuvenates and starts demanding labor then the private sector will be able to

38:30

hire from the public sector pool by bidding up the wage once the private

38:37

sector has been saturated or has hired

38:44

as much as they as they desire if you observe sort of an overheating economy

38:49

inflationary pressures the private sector decides that it needs to downsize then those workers will be laid off and

38:56

instead of moving into unemployment they move into the public sector buffer stock

39:02

so essentially what this program does is it establishes a wage floor to labor

39:08

today the wage floor of labor is essentially zero because you can hire

39:13

somebody that is willing to work at a premium above the zero wage there or

39:18

earning at the very moment so this is how we could talk more about this sort

39:26

of mechanism but this is a program that then deals with any kind of unemployment

39:33

that you are trying to solve cyclical unemployment the long-term structurally

39:40

unemployed seasonal unemployment as well as the entrance into the labor market

39:45

you know my college students that are looking for a job the benefits of this

39:52

program of course is that it also creates an employable pool of labor and it maintains and enhances a human

39:59

capital we like to always argue that this / offers both the job as well as an

40:05

opportunity to improve skill to train enough for training and education it's a targeted program as opposed to this this

40:13

indiscriminate aggregate demand management program that the plan that we seem to be implementing today or in the

40:20

way fiscal policy is conducted today it's very targeted you know where the unemployed are you take the contract to

40:27

the worker you deal with distressed areas you look at their resources you

40:33

look at their needs and you mobilize them so it's a very targeted approach it also is an approach that takes workers

40:39

as they are you're not trying to you know educate people and hopefully they

40:45

will find they will become employable in the eyes of the private sector and find employment you provide the opportunity

40:52

and then also you provide other opportunities to train to become employable and transition to the private

40:59

sector so this program can be seen as a transitional employment program its

41:06

safety net that captures the unemployed and prepares them for private sector work if they so desire of course the

41:15

project's have to be useful and valuable we all think that there are plenty of useful things to do so just to summarize

41:23

is the voluntary program nobody is forced into working for it for this job

41:29

guarantee the spending level is always at the right level however many people show up for it that's how much you spend

41:35

you don't spend more than necessary and you don't understand in a sense and it

41:42

has the transformative impact on workers on firms on communities and on the

41:47

economy i think i've already said a lot of a lot of the things that i've listed here I know firms also benefit from this

41:54

because it replaces unemployed with employable workers it reduces their training costs they have a visible pool

42:01

of labor they know what these potential private-sector workers have worked what

42:08

kind of experience they have received and so they benefit from that as well this is a policy that can lift the floor

42:17

so are going back to the earlier discussion about taxing the rich and how do we redistribute while you could you

42:22

can improve the income distribution by lifting the floor and if you set the wage of the appropriate level then that

42:29

would lift people out of poverty okay it's a permanent program and by

42:35

permanent program again I just want to emphasize that it just doesn't it doesn't mean more demand it might mean

42:40

more better distributed demand okay the job guarantee the macro stability the

42:47

just let me touch on this once again that the wage provides an inbuilt inflation control mechanism then this is

42:54

because the compensation package establishes the floor this is the floor

42:59

to a standard of living for the entire nation again you spend on this fixed

43:06

price floating quantity rule this is what the previous speakers were alluding to previously you fix the price of Labor

43:13

and then let the blood the budget float with with the needs of the economy when

43:18

the economy decelerates the budget expands as those workers enter the

43:24

public sector as the econo Blue it has an expansionary effect when the economy growth the budget automatically

43:30

contracts US workers move out into private sector jobs so that's the counter cyclical mechanism and we we

43:37

just become benchmark for the prices to the extended wages are an input of

43:42

production of all reproducible assets then that will serve as an anchor to

43:48

prices as well okay so full full

43:53

employment and price stability also promotes currency stability and the idea

44:01

here is that we you know we are establishing better anchors than the current system we use labour as that

44:10

anchor this is not a solution for all labor market problems

44:15

we can use this program as an institutional vehicle as a program to

44:21

address specific goals may one urban you know in a city renewal maybe you want

44:27

green infrastructure investment you can use those resources then to direct them to the specific things you want to do

44:33

they there will be other things that you might want to be you know deal with labor market discrimination other things

44:40

this is not a panacea for all labor market problems but it's definitely better than the unemployment buffer

44:46

stock so let me very briefly talk about Argentina Argentina is one of the most recent cases of implementing a program

44:53

that mimics the job guarantee it is not job guarantee i want to emphasize it's actually a limited program but it was a

45:01

large-scale program it was implemented quite quickly and an hour view effectively so we have been studying

45:07

this program and looking at the macro effects as well as going to projects and visited those projects to see what they

45:13

did and how they impacted people now even though it was a smaller program it

45:20

still exhibited the features that I was just discussing of this sort of macro

45:25

Universal job guarantee program the Argentinian program was implemented as

45:30

an emergency measure it was depression economics how people took to the streets they demanded from the government jobs

45:36

the government gave them jobs and they gave them jobs the program was running up and running in a few months just like

45:44

the New Deal era experience we were able to organize things to do for the

45:50

unemployed relatively quickly it was a part-time job it offered four hours of

45:55

community work to the unemployed heads of households at a minimum hourly wage and two million people showed up for

46:02

work this is about thirteen percent of the labor force in Argentina and Argentina granted is coming down from

46:09

twenty-five percent of an unemployment so they you know their levels were close

46:15

to our real actual unemployment levels but higher than our official levels they

46:20

had this program had a considerable impact on the poor and especially on women and minorities who had access to this job it was

46:27

counter-cyclical it stabilized output prices and currency you look at the data

46:32

and you find all of those indicators stabilized GDP growth was between eight

46:40

and twelve percent from 2003 to 2007 and only in the last year dipped to five

46:46

percent so if job creation that produces growth as opposed to the other way

46:52

around the government budget moved into surplus the variety of things going on

46:57

there but of course you're generating a large you know a large amount of income

47:02

switch are being taxed the multiplier effect of this program I've looked at some of the measures and some of the

47:08

more conservative measures are is 2.57 meaning that for every dollar spent on

47:13

the program you're creating two point six dollars and of output now and what

47:21

happened did people get stuck in the public sector now actually what happened was that as the economy recovered many

47:27

workers transitioned into private sector jobs it has it was organized in a very

47:34

interesting way I can tell you about all those institutional details how it was administered how it was how the

47:40

resources were mobilized but suffice to say it was federally funded locally administered the government actually

47:47

maintained a database of skill and experience of the unemployed help them

47:53

transition to private sector jobs as well and from our visits as well it was

48:00

obvious what kind of impact this program had on the poor it empowered it provided

48:07

on the job training every project that we went to see had an adjacent room with literacy education with training with

48:14

various other courses that they can take I like to see this is like a new form of

48:19

microfinance as opposed to lending to people you just give them a grant for the wages and for the materials get them

48:25

on their feet get them to produce something and pretty much every project that we saw was some

48:31

people that set up shops carpentry shops or baby clothes tailoring shops or toy shops something that they could then

48:38

sell on the market but there were also products that were freely distributed to

48:44

the poor lots of food kitchens daycare center public libraries elder care

48:52

centers for the abused etc again the employers have hired from the pool in

49:01

the economy the economy stabilized very quickly one benefit of this was that it

49:06

formalized the informal sector in Argentina actually there's a very large share of the economy that's a great economy those that used to work under

49:14

the table where you should social security tax which cards they would be when they transition to private sector

49:21

jobs now they were working under contract the program established a wage

49:27

floor from all the people that transition you know a sort of the wage

49:32

floor because the limited program but from all the people that transition from the public sector job to the private

49:39

sector they were all hired at a premium ninety-seven percent of those were hired at a premium and communities were

49:46

transformed i can give you lots of examples but what was interesting is that the unemployed themselves proposed a lot of these projects they were the

49:53

ones that actually invented the kinds of things that they did they did massive landfill cleanups and recycling

49:58

initiatives and on and on and on so these are some some pictures of of

50:04

projects that we visited and you know lots of food kitchens they were lots of

50:09

poor poor communities but there were things like health promotion programs

50:14

subsistence farming there were a lot of projects outside of the Greater Buenos

50:21

Aires area which we visited the dealt with the agricultural projects you know water irrigation clay pits etc so again

50:29

growth itself is not the appropriate target and it's are you know you have to you have to wet it to job creation it

50:38

can promote inequality in this sort of progra for growth at all costs approach

50:44

can promote inequality it can harm the environment we haven't really said anything about the environment yet so we

50:52

are you know we are really looking at a bottom-up approach and that looks at

50:57

full employment through direct job creation a job guarantee we view this as

51:02

a program for shared prosperity you can set an environmentally sustainable

51:08

growth path and maintain price and currency stability we can do it we have

51:15

done it once in the past is have other countries in one form or another it's

51:21

the right thing to do I think we could debate this but you know I want to get

51:26

back to the point about having access to a job as a basic human right and I in my

51:34

opinion i think obama just needs a Roosevelt Ian resolve we could talk more

51:39

about this later but you know just the wage bill just the wage bill of hiring

51:46

20 million people a day I think Warren has proposed a tower of dollars an hour

51:52

or you could do a living wage of ten twelve dollars an hour we're looking at 350 to 500 billion dollars compare this

52:00

you know to the other expenditures but i want to emphasize costs here not in

52:06

terms of financial costs art is not necessarily the problem i just want to show you that in perspective you could

52:13

get deliver so much more bang for the buck in real in real terms if you target

52:19

your programs so we have a deficit in convictions I think deficit in

52:26

cleverness not necessarily an ability to fund and let me end with a couple of

52:31

quotes one is by FDR that says that you know the liberty of a democracy is not safe if its business system does not

52:38

provide employment and producing distribute goods in such a way as to sustain an acceptable standard of living

52:45

and the last quote is the a quote from Cannes this is

52:51

something that we as academics constantly run against and that's this idea that we have to keep five percent

52:58

or ten percent of the population in idleness the conservative believe that there is some law of nature which

53:04

prevents men from being employed that it is rashed to employ men or women and

53:09

that it is financially sound to maintain a tenth of the population in idleness is

53:15

crazily improbable the sort of thing which no man could believe who had not

53:20

had his head followed with nonsense for years and years thank you yeah yeah wait

53:32

a Warren reminded me that you know as I said they have been many countries that have done this in one form one another

53:38

Bill Mitchell has been working on the South African program but India passed a

53:43

job guarantee law which basically guarantees a hundred days of community

53:49

work to the unemployed and it's a law that's still being worked out but there

53:56

is a movement out there I mean people are recognizing the benefits the very many benefits of this approach and so I

54:03

think there are plenty of examples to to look to

54:15

you

0 件のコメント:

コメントを投稿