and so
we said that was a big thing for an
element of that period as you can
imagine and I spent a lot of that here
very having pretend we went around and
we went to France
and I tried to write my notes a terrible
failure I mean I'd never tried to give
you publish bit but I tried very hard
and then eventually I realized that I
had got to get a dog you didn't mention
her father oh no I we had her father was
very genial and his name jacob epstein
yes he was very upset as I don't know
what impression you get off him but he
was a very genial man in an ordinary
company he was very Mary who heads
flashing your eyes and he made that best
of me and adding five sitting this is a
bus that what happened to it and the bus
it but there were two versions on it
wrong as an all-important bathroom I've
got one I gave it to my daughter the
other one he allowed to the caliper and
pushes on the top of said Michael of all
the angels which stands down on the
Clifford Contras eadral as I think he's
quite recognizable.
and you've never had
someone coming up and say oh I've seen
you somewhere before but if by hell they
do know and that was what how can I do
50 age who um yes that was very very
fascinated you Washington one who L unit
and I was imagine if you read a bust as
you started with a thing like a football
who then cuz it then it started with a
lot of little sausages and an hour
church consistent simply of a post with
a cross a test
they LED strips again and they led tiny
strips until it became solid and swim on
the exterior constrained yes so you
build it up problems another never took
anything off it's the opposite of
sculptural exactly what you said you
mentioned that you you seem to have had
a very lovely year with kitty and yes
but you said it was also a very
difficult time oh well just because I
wasn't getting anywhere Glen 26 hammer
got a job I didn't know what I go to do
so then it was again pws elders who got
me an interview with that executive one
in the in the metal box company which is
a camera that made tin cans and seaside
pens which branch were you in I was a
thing for infants death and any because
people don't help you then it really but
Andrews really did help me he got me
this interview and I got a dog 60 pounds
a month they'll only drove an absolutely
no knowledge of or less forgotten a bit
in stats was it it rias informational
suggesting yeah um.
but I find I felt
very much humiliated by the
insignificance of the job I held and
what do you do is it Kristen
welcome especially when you were mixing
with people they yeah Kitty's background
nvidia yeah Matthew Smith um anyway and
then because he noticed an adverse was
in his statement people have you free
columnist field Treasury so I applied
for this job I've been spotting up they
were only cause then I been spotting out
the left on income how to measure in
reading a bit but they were wear to an
interview which is fun day did happen
that I knew about something said Robert
do the Robert Hall who was the crew
chief he know me apprised of him and I
happened to know about the price of tin
working in the metal box I mean it was
there to know about pressure said they
didn't make tin plate but you had to
know both always get to turn and press
it anyway um I got this lowly job and
that would have been in Asia 56 I went
into the EPS I made the bus for me in
February in 1956 and I went in in march
to the and then you're very low
positions you've imagined and then I
worked where did and a bouncer didn't
feel quite so humiliated except on
occasion
what we had to do and what luo chrissie
said i had to do was to interpret more
or less for all figures for the for the
for use by the government having wife
was easy and what the future would be
and there was an array of economists and
statisticians other departments who fed
you with the more or less or they turn
our own interpretation road and then i
had to write a report on cement say what
has happened along was gained her and
then do a big forecasting xsn then once
every have a look every six month I wish
the budget will be best and mrs. would
be pleased tons and as time passed and
other people left I became question
expert I mean how many years past I was
promoted and then considerably well who
the big change in my life professional
life was in about nineteen sixty 450
went well to back up this a bit I went
because they required all is not
undigested knowledge then I went for a
couple of years so the National
Institute of the government and I write
them a lot of pieces which were
published them on particular things I
said quite a little humble team back to
me sell price indexes island
and that's great they were quite a hit
of the time and people refer to the news
them and when I went back to the
Treasury that is it all changed it was
the neighborhood and then I met Nikki
Calvin the first 10 and then as it
turned out of a very big event in my
name anywhere I made this for the close
relationship with him and I did one or
two quite important quite spectacular I
mean they were spectacular by their
nature I don't know if you could another
thing called the Selective employment
tax but it was very important in that
the emphasis 1966 when I had to create
the statistical system for levying
attacked just complicated you because
had to raise that woman as many in one
win and pay it back um and then the
following interest evaluation and I did
all the texts but how big the evaluation
should be a one trouble should be worth
word and then I was considered to be a
sort of coming members and done all
these very strictly Treasuries in
successfully and I had a good working
knowledge of the economy shall part was
measured
and what was likely to happen to it so
true hello and i think it was very
flimsy had a very flimsy basis in
theories were you interested in macro
theory I mean were you drawing on the
work of canes on yeah well we thought we
were rude but it couldn't be used in any
there wasn't cool to just tendon we had
our own way of modeling the economy grew
as I said that he was seriously
inadequate but in principle it was
Keynesian food it was carrying his
spirit food at him so then Nikki was him
was his doing he was very persuasive and
at very persistent but he persuaded me
to leave subs an undersecretary try to
senior position and I was very well
established in life had a beautiful
house in London they persuaded me to
come to cambridge thumb I'm sorry to say
from a personal point of view I regard
that as being by a very long when first
is another de the worst was well we'll
come to that but can you tell us more
about Nikki I mean at some point whether
this show like point I met him towards
the end of his life I and obviously
didn't get to know him at all well but
and what was he it's a very large man
yes sideways anyway not well kid my mom
very good
I don't know about the physiology of
this but he told me there were three
types there was a thought actor domes
and and our terms and meso tones and
acted in self ecto made the bones and
Skelton and America and meso met that
made those is simply and which
correspond to Henry the fifth Hamlet in
heaven heaven heaven fifth halibut and
foster and Nikki was the unique or staff
head oh is it who thought with his gut
and and you that was a very good so good
thing to say about him because although
he's you could always in the very end
you could pin him down to the logical an
argument his up his answers flowed from
his body as a prophecy had never
negative we never thought who he spoke
or hesitate he emanated he imitated
thought and I mean use the one versatile
they've been touch was genius in a true
sense that he had kind of unlimited
intake and output when you say the one
person one economist what he called the
jilted Mattie well William clock those
are both in relation to use those there
any other tool is integer here's one of
the three academic see Matt oh well
we're in block was not an accident
performing moved on yeah because it was
also placed following well so what
getting back to why Cambridge is such a
disaster
Oh / liberty settled he was very
persuasive and he would never give up
and he you sooner than he used to go to
sleep because he slipped in the
permanency career monster was a famine
secretary very much respect and used to
sleep at meetings of the top Treasury
officials and he was extremely greedy we
used to have used to go to seven that
was when callahan was he was children
under the story i have about that repeat
he used to used to go to winners in him
his her her and he always had this
particular kind of sold at a lot of
clean clothes and he was very very much
and honored the Callahans but something
to do with deprived children said it's
devilish and because he was eating this
clearly so fat in a very crazy way I
started to kid him that he wasn't me how
this is here and that cause hips
supposed to two teeth and she wanted to
prove to and didn't care and then a
stream of Tears kinder one-sided as his
mouth Kim three Michelin Man attended
horrible emulsion on his chin mmm it
made it sort of something conveys what
it might have been like it mr. be in his
company who he was he loved loved her I
was usually at his own jokes the lump
rides over and he has his
realities and I mean economic food as
well as being very creative Colin soap
yes well my arrival in here at melon how
did he contrived a position for you at
Cambridge with all who could resist him
and once he gets onto an appointment
committee Hebrew because there were
other people that's better what what
appointment was it director of the
Department of bloody hell on how that
plays soleal type rude daughter because
you see he won't be not only to be
department chairs about he also
wanted me to be a fellow of Kings group
as he was on the appointments committee
he knew that I was new to let him the
whole body else knew so he immediately
went to him and each said right what
year is this this is snot in sand same
year as i was elected to King's right
anyway you want to see the world the
prophus all your quota was full
nevertheless Edmund immediately wrote to
me that of the derived simultaneous with
the publication result say if you wear
hang around from this thing forget your
fellowship machines because it Charlie
comes really today that I am spiritually
proto business group and I wrote back
say thank you very much i love to hang
around from in the next post came to
Nessus my overheads devising ways
against him so please him put me in a
way Oh felt very well couldn't and I had
nothing I had no particular wish to be
king
anyway that was a great embarrassment to
do with that would how was it sorted out
uh was sorted out that's Robin you see
in berk he'll let he give you a name
like both go through closed the bathroom
ask me as though weekend and enjoy his
good fun but I Chris master of weapon
Pita Pit have yet and prevaricated eldon
in the end I decided to do one came to
be bound round play badminton transfer
complete absolutely in problem but went
back to purchase a doctor in her because
then he'd thought he didn't need in one
week I predict but I can tell you how
embarrassing horrible is over and being
used to the Treasury where which is an
entirely hierarchical organization but
as they're United in purpose and all
very clever people you know what aware
of any pretto concert ever with trivial
exception
well I i came to carry two posing as the
rectal Department of egg so long as
people who do was a television but not a
bit of it I mean all they thought of in
relation to me was that they preserve
their jobs because there's no none of
the man tell you he was it was on soft
funding either yet and then the
structural the pointman structural it
was very questionable because senior in
bekasi by president they were so anxious
about me thinking that I would try to do
them down this is bursting so it was
difficult to see before me see how I
could join you Mademoiselle how many
people were there our 30 group today and
the appointment committee of the
development was the committee of
management and they all went to the
previous than a director who was burned
railway and said tell me can you see if
godly will use the right of theme of the
of the committee of measurement to a
co-op members to allow them to cook
co-op people that we elect um so right
away put this to me in a very neutral
way he'd never tolerate any I've seen
him he was director well though as the
committee management was also the
appointment with you I was sort of
structurally in a very very bad position
because these gun long-tenured people
were fully operational and very highly
motivated and nuns of the employment
committee to a short tenant
you dumped I was in complained to the
general board and they didn't move
anyway I was very own computer for no
reason i know that i could see um I
didn't I wish them well um but it was a
very uncomfortable feeling about you and
they've also try and then there were
very difficult members of the assistant
stuff or real trouble my assistant stuff
young computing people that sort of
thing who for no trouble nation so I'm
so happy it's like that and very soon
group wished you hadn't made the lead
yes I'm very dearly designers but who
very very I thought it's too feeble to
do that the harbor and the lies she act
properly trained asleep on this as
people would recognize I mean I wouldn't
be able to pass part one room and play
early have my Treasury experience but
that I did have and I had a lot of
things to to ratify reference as I was
special advisor to the parliamentary
committee on dealing the public
expenditure Iranian president has been
three years us now ND nothing I was sort
of holy incompetent there was a lot of
policy material the timers and you're a
great healer good and I all showed you
that the economy was very badly covered
in the public discussion
and I knew more than ever the journalist
you at that time so I thought well well
I shall start doing is to do my Treasury
were too humid above the belly Hugh and
that was very successful and at least
the other cell said he got a lot of
coverage in his papers and Frances crips
who I think caldo as a genius follow
these clips was that is the actual sort
of clever Elizabeth II golems and no no
he left his job in the faculty he is
head attendant bird and came and worked
untenured as an ordinary you can i call
mr. and above and then we started a
thing together call the cambridge
economic policy group which produced
reports evelyn bulletin done in
cambridge alkoxy group which were
evaluations of the economic situation
and prospect to begin with special
reference to public expenditure and
public finance
well which to begin with was heading
accuracy was very successful dist
reasonably we did but we will rather in
the limelight in it was a lot of
coverage in prep and times in particular
and in the financial time I was very
friendly with the name peacefully
jealous of that time bomb and Frances
built her among an elaborate models the
British economy which we used to make
projections you've got a nice big grant
from me as LC as it was and we certainly
did yet 103 of the tourney big turning
points right and they in 74 in flesh
energy 75 and he collapse of the economy
after Santa 980 who were unpopular I
would say almost everybody
very pessimistic about the medium term
future and very seriously entertain
possibility of protection as an economic
strategy which of course is very
unpopular with the colonies and anyway
then we have what we had had a staff of
about eight so we also wrote pieces
about regional policy and about the
world Frances also built a world mobile
pages which were just beginning to use
and then came yesterday because the sslc
to understand when it came to bring you
in a big front there was a very serious
flaw in their procedure which is that
they did consultants they didn't play a
site visit so there was no possible they
didn't put any adverse proposition you
wouldn't do that now in think they close
things any great precautions for legal
entanglement so you were just
unfortunate at the time well this is
quite a fun story about closes groups as
tamati Kellerman here where I was I went
back to the Treasury free year as he
said to her and I wanted to get a piece
of computing ton photo proof sent a
third piece of modeling work to be done
in computers Howard Francis with the
equation and I just see him he went back
in his room
prophecy came out for the computer book
and he put it in darkanian's there for
seconds so as the subject was terribly
secret and didn't actually worthy new
belgium and what it was that don't say
it's human ana star center sold one so
we're back to the Treasury with his
program hello after i took it where they
had at in all his computer sanity and
then i came into the room for five days
later they had produced the answer so
what up to listen to it keeps going
or why didn't produce held we can't
understand what you think i understand
because I'm still her it was so said put
it into the computer and get the answer
and they put it in the LC came in and
they were never able to understand um
well I'm advised dead and gone tell them
that Roger that our computing system was
antiquated in Venice that and Latin
Tate's a knob street food was absolutely
brilliant a very magic in Riyadh and the
other thing of course was of not one of
the consortium as I've actually built
along who there were people there a
telemetry she's proven sort of people so
a helluva never cause a substantial of
course and that really was a catastrophe
because it meant that the group was
broken up not to mention the fact that I
mean we were very publicly how many
issue as a whole thing
and Frances left I went to Thailand
virtually never hello them but they all
got good jobs there were tons what date
with it there was nineteen eighty-two
group she Francis research firm I never
learned to do to touch a computer so i
had to stop Jay mod leave on my own and
I had three years I'm still direct in
the department a lot of very much
reduced scale really that's another
whole story like that but I started till
then logging taught myself only and I
graduate education of all of a certain
kind of multi I became reasonably expert
now in the nineteen seventy eight well
really knows you sent it home I started
I started of a line of research into
macroeconomic theory i hadn't i had an
inside i had suffered a machine inside
about how the home on the economy as a
whole was put together and I started to
write for about his own in and she says
here and then the one was a size from
the economy watch it watching pages for
the air started to raise it up try to
raise it up and Frank offered me a ruler
of the books which is sister book or
macro economics which is supposed to be
a guy to macroeconomics maker easily
which aided by the large fields is broad
and 21 and I started to write up an
account and Frances joins in with me and
we published this book and it came on
stream this about the time of the day
but with E um the day box with me were
the year so seriously as they suffer and
it came out at the nineteen eighties 83
the public but only about
six people thought that it was the work
of genius had a thought rivers but in
the boat was really that it was not
completed anywhere near it completely
thought out the model closures and who
but
I then had a I'm not deterred by belief
in the fundamental one fundamental idea
but from 1980 sphere then having it had
a very fruitful year in demo and soon
after I came back from delmar pay every
time oh I'm coming too determined and I
went to the state where I faithful to
Nadine landing a rover was well-paid
techno dude no teaching and I continued
where was not a bad who they have an
economics easy to tell but I continued
doggedly with these two aspects of my
work while was writing about whatever
economy i was in and I became familiar
with the United States even and started
writing pieces which strategic pieces of
the American economy which my employers
like but simultaneously I was evolving a
new version of the book substantial and
making all novels myself well
that was incredibly dangerous he the
other they were changes which may shock
him was I started to really understand
the sort of economics that most
beautiful teach variation is a clue and
in that I was very much assisted by a
man who mail what a fellow called an
wash 8 who is a professor at the new
school and we used to have a
brainstorming sessions on the
neoclassical synthesis which went on for
hours and hours and days and days and
weeks a week and in the end I came to
what I now believe real proper
understanding of the system of ideas
that had been opposed to a low-cost
kalanchoe hope you noticed but i Kenned
my own version of how to oppose it I me
how to set it out properly which in the
sense was also a whey protein own so
these two things came on so taneously a
positive a positive statement and the
negatives tended and I started writing
up the positive statement in in bits and
pieces which got published and then I
had the great good fortune to for that
handling am using my head let her from
Ottawa
from a man called luck loved one and he
wrote me an e-mail say we are for full
professors and we cannot equip
understand equation actually no paper on
Saturday so I wrote back saying what
instead it was has a very bad mistaken
and so um he came to see me and we got
on there and he agreed to co-author the
book I was then sort of moral death
halfway through very deeply sympathetic
and he could scholar and a good manager
for lungs had a very nice bent and
that's what I've been doing ever since
except you see I've got the book the
book came out last just happened to
something just over a year ago godly and
love are cold monetary economics Kings
when I came to it was as full of
economists and Edmond used to complain
about having too many economists yeah
obviously most formidable apart from
Nikki was well they're very old was
Richard Karn yes what was he like well
i'm fraid i couldn't get on with him in
any real
see the other for those all the greatest
story in itself is how it came about but
the economist's most closely associated
with canes of whom Carol and not one but
the world John Robinson on rigid car and
to throw fur and in indirect has lead
and passionate even or doesn't it well
doesn't it is him is it Julia person
yeah but Nikki became part of it would
well don't know that he's much
personally involved weekends but there
was a hole and Stanfill food under it a
man who my opinion by rail Richards
don't get view under AG by his Cambridge
for him but he's very powerful genuinely
very powerful minded people who was the
direct descendants of james but they
were important individually and
collectively they were vain they didn't
sponsor other people's were they are
quarrelsome they they wanted to be the
one and they left no legacy there was
not a legend leave a coherent body of
work this is a very important part of my
own story their new a lot of colors
ideas but there's no Cal Dorian textbook
there's no synthesis low post chaise in
synthesis which tells you from beginning
to end what the first Keynesian view is
as to how the economic system
it's all in bits and pieces are
brilliant his head well to come back to
your actual question I've found there
Richard Conte very difficult to talk to
and out of course until robinson two
very opinionated ebay listen not really
not one tiny met Jane Robinson once he
didn't really she seemed to be
interested in what she was talking about
it well there's are all great tragedy
they were all very gifted and not saying
they were but there weren't people to
help you along the road they wanted all
of them to be the one but they didn't do
the thing which and complain you know
which is to produce a coherent statement
of how the whole economy one was another
important figure there is koletzki who
was not one who thought most only who he
thought thought of himself imagine a
tailored with in cambridge okay well he
was often on in cambridge I don't know
how much these are his performance so um
I am in great danger of making hostages
to fortune but even
to speak on this tree I mean they're
going to speak any other way I believe
myself we're back i want to have made a
statement of the alternative economics
which is enough at least four other
people to build in and to rehabilitate
me i didn't bother to call it the true
because i don't know much became not
canes himself but there is another body
there is another way of thinking about
the autonomy other than the very
influential standard new traffic
original american war gerade and that's
to say but in the Army sammelsohn
Patinkin through for a good stuff who
from their version of but image is an
amazing fact that there are two
paradigms who deeply ah stottah well
known and the first Cajun one has been
largely ratty for the time being by both
with regard to teaching appointments
publications other way people think and
burbridge the pockets of resistance and
also places pretend I'm not even they've
been written out of the literature and
what I believe myself to have done is to
rehabilitate that in a way that none of
those people would actually done when he
didn't do it and they think they would
doesn't have time what is the
implication can you spell it out again
well it is a different ages an
altogether different way of thinking oh
but it has got political and I suppose
the main political implication is that
the market is king I mean if you that
the less the government does the more we
will allow the market to function freely
service that may mean that is the author
love you can I just come back to the
other side of or part of the side of
your life in Cambridge which we haven't
talked about which is Kings yes you were
elected of profits Oriole fellow after
that difficult beginning and one or two
people who we both knew and it'd be
interesting to have your views on the
first was one you mention the provost at
the time Edmund leach how did you get on
with Edmund I loved him and I got on
extremely well with him what more can I
say he was a slide Z well he was an
erratic who figure he could be bad
tempered and to anything but I didn't
care about it to me he was always
generous in churches and funny and
loving that's the thing you know Celia
at all I did who I knew there was a
couple as well food and choose a a very
attractive compliment to him then did
you think he was an original thinker or
perhaps it was outside your view
entirely is right outside my field food
but I didn't entirely i suppose i should
say trust his view
so I was a clear identified I mean I'm
speaking as such an amateur who my
knowledge is so trivial but I didn't
know this tremendous emphasis on cooking
and eating and I couldn't I mean they've
been a throuple logical books a general
whether they're kosher with you like the
mana which is really i mean like
patterns and culture who the books would
have really changed my life did it no
but because i was locked into logical
positivism who thought that life could
have a meaning apart from chopping up
meetings where they were using names
rightly her in a group and the really
were interesting things to learn about
about other people who which could not
be chopped up in the logical status of
propositions who so that did have read a
lot of by reverend thesis as a pastor
who there is no question in Spellman's
mother Kingsman who you mentioned was a
best friend and professor yet with the
seventh professor of English literature
Frank commode my dear friend is tell me
something about Frank well um I play
squash with him every week for about 30
years no way of better way of getting to
know somebody exactly I don't know the
piece I wrote about him in that who
little volume I called him I just called
the opponent and and he he certainly was
quite a tough opponent who is more
athletic than you might suppose I mean
I'm not enough
but he often beat me who and she was
very competitive and he simply I had a
row with him once because I had to lie
down and I was out of shape through and
I lay lay down i say give her the game
blows up to those and then when we
started again and i won the next four
points and sort of what i said all right
but he was really close that's only time
I've seen him really angry because I won
by stealth was reminded who he liked
away and although he was so he's so
modest in us in everywhere but he liked
to win was that mention could happen as
a scholar as is called what a wonderful
thing about here is that you always knew
everything he never made me feel small
for not being as much as he did he had
been specified and quarter to half of
the time we talked about literature
music which he also knows what he does
not about everything um state would
company very sweet simply
but you were saying rather surprising me
unsure of himself really amazingly
running or was it tell the story of a
unit well that's a very good example of
how and how low esteem he holds himself
it was when I used to have browser on
the board of directors at home garden
had access to the Royal Box I asked him
to come to dinner and see one of the big
founder operas and not get to drive him
and pass it down to the Opera heads and
when it was getting always too late he
had to come I rang him up said where are
you and it turned out that what has
happened was he come to my house knocked
on the door not immediately receives an
answer and assumed that we'd gone
without him absolutely stone hehe
amazing who were we would have done such
a thing so who got him at a speed or
whether authorized of bread but we got
there old again good evening you
mentioned their music which came up a
lot in that at the beginning I mean you
came to a college which is quite famous
for its music did you enjoy that side of
kings Oh not ready because I wasn't
probably always so I was a player so
apart from play two or three concerts
with David Wilcock and it is his day
here just before he left hmm which I
enjoyed very much particularly a
performance of the Brahms Requiem has a
marvelous hobo party I knew he was a
difficult man who was a diff
men to connect to follow with it or he
was one of those people circular these
and he couldn't find the downbeat your
watch yeah i asked steve avery 22 invite
me to play as the last time i played it
so seriously and i asked him not for the
deco play lacrosse it with you have a
dozen one weekend where the skulls are
away who in the set of evensong evans
can tata clothing and i asked him if I
could play so they parted bark at them
and for the whole term of the United
States Oh practically every single day
at practice he almost got up to a point
some sort of something i neva be ashamed
that's about the last but he's another
man who is so modest in his manner oh
yes you wanna kiss because he has a
wonderful be room and he knew how to
test for the balance agree wonderfully
efficient through a performer who will
acquire mystery yes indeed coming coming
back to King's The Brady only talked
about Frank and Edmund whether any other
people you were close to Adrian Adrian
would mmm has been my real friend it was
an economics research fellow in me yes
70th wasn't a thorough and he was his
extremely clever man now the word he did
as an under the beauty student is still
alive and part of the literature quoted
as a separate source in Mabel and my
other friends of crystal Prendergast who
is a close friend of mine
but we don't worry chattel about the
stock market but he doesn't have any
knowledge of who those of the main
people you were saying we were
mentioning i was mentioning that i was
hoping to write something about
cambridge and you said oh yes but there
was a coder oh I said well I message had
it all that may be difficult to
understand it had like a character a
baby I'm not sure I didn't say I smell
oh yes a or alright as a feeler about it
hmm which is unlike any other thing and
very unlike Oxford it goes boom and very
much less friendly so far as it doesn't
suggest that they aren't friendly
atmosphere did you have people walk past
her without looking at your home kitty
was saying the same thing as now we both
felt it very much hmm i miss you i think
more even before however superglue she's
kit is not academic at all and didn't
have any formal education after assess
name but she's extremely well-read and a
very interesting she's very interesting
about what she reads true but you
couldn't talk to anyone to boom cuz it's
a faster man people wouldn't listen hmm
so you you didn't have a real sense of
fellowship at kings I can't send it we
had a little bitter towards the
beginning of the time I was there there
was a group of people who who are
married together Charles open karenina
and Adrian
those historic Marty Lyons there yes I
knew Martin for me aware he was elected
the same time as I was we were a merry
group mom Tammy gut now he was here is
not part of their group it was the same
time and in John Donne john Dunn I
gotten a much later boom as he's been
very dear friend Phyllis having looked
at economic and other trends over the
last 30 40 years do you think we are
doomed doomed yes I mean that's the same
population ecology tetra tetra yes well
I I certainly think how that's
correctional system with exactly just
what I said I certainly don't think it
will happen all by itself the market
forces are not going to solve the
problem who knows he'll make it as is
usually so some great process of well it
happens naturally one actually with some
active will call it collaboration with
the world's problems of which I'm
serious will not be solved by market
forces event we've a prison we plan
something else has to be done from the
man two very good ABS if you a good
question to ask and I what's going on
now what seems like a baby well it is a
relatively major crisis who but it has
come about because
Oh of deregulation the banking and
financial sisters have been deregulated
used to be controls along these things
that sound Lawson there's any much
people don't remember really but there
are no financial system is deregulated
in the edges and if it haven't been as I
think we'd be in this mess well was
there any moving in the search social
been selling moving in very reluctantly
move and my opinion home vote in enough
yet to see as though the other huge
question is the shift of economic and
political power eastwards towards China
and Japan and so on but I don't use hit
the people doesn't really got into
people's consciousness you know other
declared of America exactly I mean
particularly mm the double process one
going down and one going up quite fast
very fast I mean each estimate of the
time at which the Chinese economy will
catch up with America get shorter and
shorter you know it used to be 2050 or
2060 now it's you know within a
generation or less and having been to
China or a lot recently I've seen what's
happening it's just out of this world
and did you spend any time in outside
European America very much.
and I have
most of my professional or loss of them
in LA on Saturday hmm sounds like your
grandfather who ran India from Whitehall
you sound a bit like the famous remark
attributed to Sir James Fraser when
asked if he'd ever met any of the
natives on trinity high table and
fearing loss of face he said god forbid
so um give me that book I want to show
which one is it the one right at the end
because we had the option to do I want
to show you what she loved taking his
plan in the office this is back to your
grandfather is that a portrait of him
we'll get him a very nice picture of him
isn't it a good face and move strong
nomas and in many ways the most one of
the most influential people in your
lives in your life.
but I think of him
every day well what he was just a
diversion boom well I think that's a
very nice note to end on so thank you
very much indeed win that was love.
英語 (自動生成)
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